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Old 12-30-2018, 06:01 AM
 
11,995 posts, read 5,126,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
I live in the Indy metro area. We survived thanks in part due to a more diversified economy vs just having heavy auto industry. Lots of good paying jobs lost here with the loss of manufacturing. However, lots of tech jobs replaced those jobs. Downside is that those jobs require advanced education compared to just simple logic on how to run a press, drill in a screw, etc.. Our state's smaller cities and towns didn't do as well. Many of them are having serious issues with poverty that they'd never seen before. Lots of younger people who are lucky to get out have no plans to move back. Once the UAW pension and social security folks have all passed away, I'm not sure what those places will become.

I've visited Cincinnati a few times. I've always liked their downtown area along the river. The problem is that they are still in the snow belt and people looking to escape to more mild climates usually want to head further south. Indianapolis has a bland topography compared to Cincinnati. Chicago is a league of it's own, but also has serious issues with poverty, debt load, etc..

Louisville is interesting. I've mostly only driven through the area. Seems to be on an upswing from what I hear. Winters aren't as bad as Indy or Cinci when talking temps and snow.
Cincinnati and also most of KY can get pretty cold, but I don't consider it in the snow belt. Of course there is no one definition of snow belt or sun belt and maps will vary. Cincinnati averages only about 11-16 inches of snow all winter depending on your source of information, Louisville averages about 8-9 inches. Compare that to cities like Cleveland with 68 inches.

https://www.currentresults.com/Weath...n-averages.php

Last edited by marino760; 12-30-2018 at 06:36 AM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Cincinnati and also most of KY can get pretty cold, but I don't consider it in the snow belt. Of course there is no one definition of snow belt or sun belt and maps will vary. Cincinnati averages only about 16 inches of snow all winter, Louisville averages about 8-9 inches. Compare that to cities like Cleveland with 68 inches.
Cleveland, most likely, gets that much snow, because it's on a Great Lake. I'm guessing it melts, fairly quickly.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:09 AM
 
3,615 posts, read 1,207,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
That was kind of my point. They do lack an "it" factor but given their location and already sizable presence it would seem more might have happened by now given growth in other medium-sized Sunbelt cities.
Savannah at least has the port and the Atlantic coast, which is why its seeing somewhat decent growth/investment.

Otherwise, it's going to take a lot for those other places to overcome Atlanta's gravitational pull, especially with most of the corporate job centers and desirable amenities (Blue Ridge mountains, Lake Lanier, etc.) being north of the city.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:29 AM
 
21,195 posts, read 30,379,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Cities in Georgia like Macon, Columbus and Augusta kind of stick out in my opinion. They sort of seem poised to take off in terms of size and location, but really aren't for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
That was kind of my point. They do lack an "it" factor but given their location and already sizable presence it would seem more might have happened by now given growth in other medium-sized Sunbelt cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Savannah at least has the port and the Atlantic coast, which is why its seeing somewhat decent growth/investment.

Otherwise, it's going to take a lot for those other places to overcome Atlanta's gravitational pull, especially with most of the corporate job centers and desirable amenities (Blue Ridge mountains, Lake Lanier, etc.) being north of the city.
I think now or in the near future could finally be their time to shine. Atlanta has about reached critical mass in terms of aggressive growth (other than infill) with the northern suburbs around Alpharetta for example already congested and no longer as affordable as they once were. Throw in the fact Florida has by/large become largely not affordable either for the working class, and where those looking for climates differing from the frozen north/northeast will given serious consideration to finding a happy medium in southern Georgia perhaps. Well-paying manufacturing jobs have already relocated operations to other smaller to mid-sized cities in the Southeast and one could see where their existing infrastructure could attract companies looking for places attractive to live for families based on economics and climate, as well as from an HR perspective for a viable source of ongoing recruitment from a sizable population.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I think now or in the near future could finally be their time to shine. Atlanta has about reached critical mass in terms of aggressive growth (other than infill) with the northern suburbs around Alpharetta for example already congested and no longer as affordable as they once were. Throw in the fact Florida has by/large become largely not affordable either for the working class, and where those looking for climates differing from the frozen north/northeast will given serious consideration to finding a happy medium in southern Georgia perhaps. Well-paying manufacturing jobs have already relocated operations to other smaller to mid-sized cities in the Southeast and one could see where their existing infrastructure could attract companies looking for places attractive to live for families based on economics and climate, as well as from an HR perspective for a viable source of ongoing recruitment from a sizable population.
I hope you're right, but when I see people increasingly discuss sprawling way out to Dawsonville, Gainesville and even Dahlonega over considering Macon or Columbus, I have my doubts.

I've heard people in Dallas describe this phenomenom as "Oklahoma line or bust." Well here, it seems to be "Tennessee/North Carolina line or bust."

That said, I suspect the Macon to Atlanta corridor would take off first, since Henry County is the only place south of Atlanta seeing Northside-type growth rates. Plus, it has pretty good connectivity to I-75.

Last edited by citidata18; 12-30-2018 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
552 posts, read 314,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Cleveland, most likely, gets that much snow, because it's on a Great Lake. I'm guessing it melts, fairly quickly.
Chardon, is about 30 miles east of Cleveland and it gets 107 inches a year - on average. Some areas near Chardon have reported over 160 inches in one season. A single snowstorm in 1996 produced over 5 ft of snow in Hambden Township, in Geauga County near Chardon. This is the snow belt of Lake Erie that extends along the high ground from Cleveland up into New York. Depending upon the year, the snow may melt early or later, it can be on the ground for many months though. Some people love the snow, others tolerate it, others move South.

As for the rust belt in Ohio, I would say it is solidly the upper half of the state, excepting Columbus. The historical, inner core of the rust belt for me, has always been Detroit to Pittsburgh, which puts all of Northern Ohio inside.

The term "rust belt" puts off a lot of people but I never had a problem with it. It describes the vestiges of the largest industrial machine the world has ever known. A machine that won wars, built nations and cities. The machine has essentially died and we in the rust belt get to rebuild on a solid foundation. Give it time.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,103 posts, read 13,491,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
What are some cities/regions that stand apart within their Rust Belt/Sun Belt neighbors??

I think unfortunately a lot of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama weren't able to be part of the Sunbelt development stretching from the Southwest all the way to South Florida. While Louisiana has grown in recent years we never saw the kind of boom cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh and Tampa and Orlando have. Memphis and Little Rock are also less prosperous areas surrounded by Sunbelt neighbors.

Columbus, Ohio stands out among its Rust Belt neighbors as a predominantly prosperous, white collar city with very little industrial history. Cincinnati marginally so, compared to areas like Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, Detroit, Erie PA, etc. Chicago, despite all its urban ills, also isn't a Rust Belt city in my opinion due to its massive and diversified economy, though most of its neighbors are Rust Belt. Not sure about Indianapolis.
Louisiana never seemed to recover from Katrina, especially in New Orleans, and Mississippi and Alabama simply have far too many economic and social problems, often ranking dead last on every quality of life metric available. It's an indication that economics rather than weather or location play a far bigger role in where people live and want to live.

Indianapolis always seemed like a hybrid city to me. It's often compared to Columbus, and there are definitely similarities, but Indy also shared qualities with some traditional Rust Belt cities as well. It seems to now be falling behind some other Midwest cities in terms of overall growth, like Columbus, Minneapolis and even some smaller cities like Madison, Des Moines, Omaha and Grand Rapids.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:53 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
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To think of it, while South Carolina has seen healthy growth the boom still isn't as big as the main Sunbelt cities, though Charleston is certainly growing. I think due to the historic nature there's limits on how large the population within the city itself can grow, same with Savannah but those are two wonderful cities.

Both Charleston and Savannah continue to have a thriving manufacturing sector such as aircraft/military equipment in Charleston and the large paper mill in Savannah among other things there though these are all in the metro area vs the central city.

I'd say that the three states that I would consider entirely in the Rust Belt would be Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey with Columbus and Cincinnati being the only islands. I've not been anywhere in Pennsylvania that I would describe as booming and despite the beautiful scenery and friendly people a lot of that state is depressing especially the Philadelphia area and western PA. New Jersey is constantly losing its native born population to other states and areas like Camden, Atlantic City, Asbury Park, Newark etc are archetypes of the decaying city.

Louisiana and Alabama HAVE been able to attract new investment. The petrochemical plants around Baton Rouge and Lake Charles are booming and Lake Charles is now building a brand new LNG export facility and offshore drilling is booming too. Several new plants are being built near Baton Rouge and toward New Orleans. The Northshore is also growing though THAT seems to be more due to suburban flight from New Orleans because of the crime and overcrowding and also because the Northshore is on higher ground and safer during floods and hurricanes. Alabama just announced the new construction of a massive Nissan manufacturing plant. However while we're happy for all this, it still doesn't put us in the same league as Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, and much of Florida in terms of that kind of growth.

Though there are downfalls to Sunbelt growth too like the decline in Southern charm, a higher pace of living, changing politics etc. So while not as flashy as the Sunbelt neighbors, I would still say that Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Birmingham and Montgomery are doing much better than most of the Rust Belt cities and there seems to be a lot of optimism here. Baton Rouge is still an area where someone without a college degree can make a very good living working a plant job, this kind of thing no longer exists in many parts of the country.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:00 PM
 
56,621 posts, read 80,930,134 times
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^NJ is completely in the Rust Belt?? That’s a new one...
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:15 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,143 posts, read 23,668,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Not sure your criteria here. Can a city once be Rust Belt, but diversify and no longer be in the category? I would define it as so:

In Rust Belt but never Rust Belt:
Columbus
Madison
Des Moines
Indianapolis

Once considered Rust Belt but no longer fit criteria:
Chicago (There is still ample evidence of Chicago's Rust Belt roots all over the south side)
Grand Rapids
Minneapolis/St. Paul
Allentown
Most NE seaboard cities
Fort Wayne
Milwaukee


Showing signs of recovery
Cincinatti
Pittsburgh
Lansing

Starting recovery process
Cleveland
Detroit
Dayton

Cities in the Sunbelt that don't fit the Sunbelt criteria:
New Orleans
Memphis
Birmingham
Little Rock
Jackson MS
Montgomery
Louisville (Louisville is an interesting case it has a lot of rust belt qualities with decline(until city/county consolidation) and a history of heavy industry. It arguably sits on the Rust/Sun belt border not sure where it would belong.
Tucson - I doubt Tucson would ever cross peoples mind to be added to a the "in Sun Belt, but not Sun belt list". Tucson is the home to a major state flagship university, and is located in growth juggernaut Arizona. Yet its population growth is slower than Midwestern metros like Grand Rapids, Omaha, Des Moines, and Madison, and its economic growth barely registers. To me Tucson's numbers over the last 20 years would qualify it for this category.
Would throw in Buffalo and Rochester in the showing signs of recovery category. Maybe St. Louis and Kansas City should be ranked.
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