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Old 12-28-2018, 10:46 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
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What are some cities/regions that stand apart within their Rust Belt/Sun Belt neighbors??

I think unfortunately a lot of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama weren't able to be part of the Sunbelt development stretching from the Southwest all the way to South Florida. While Louisiana has grown in recent years we never saw the kind of boom cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh and Tampa and Orlando have. Memphis and Little Rock are also less prosperous areas surrounded by Sunbelt neighbors.

Columbus, Ohio stands out among its Rust Belt neighbors as a predominantly prosperous, white collar city with very little industrial history. Cincinnati marginally so, compared to areas like Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, Detroit, Erie PA, etc. Chicago, despite all its urban ills, also isn't a Rust Belt city in my opinion due to its massive and diversified economy, though most of its neighbors are Rust Belt. Not sure about Indianapolis.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:46 AM
 
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Cities in Georgia like Macon, Columbus and Augusta kind of stick out in my opinion. They sort of seem poised to take off in terms of size and location, but really aren't for some reason.
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Old 12-29-2018, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
What are some cities/regions that stand apart within their Rust Belt/Sun Belt neighbors??

I think unfortunately a lot of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama weren't able to be part of the Sunbelt development stretching from the Southwest all the way to South Florida. While Louisiana has grown in recent years we never saw the kind of boom cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh and Tampa and Orlando have. Memphis and Little Rock are also less prosperous areas surrounded by Sunbelt neighbors.

Columbus, Ohio stands out among its Rust Belt neighbors as a predominantly prosperous, white collar city with very little industrial history. Cincinnati marginally so, compared to areas like Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, Detroit, Erie PA, etc. Chicago, despite all its urban ills, also isn't a Rust Belt city in my opinion due to its massive and diversified economy, though most of its neighbors are Rust Belt. Not sure about Indianapolis.
Not sure your criteria here. Can a city once be Rust Belt, but diversify and no longer be in the category? I would define it as so:

In Rust Belt but never Rust Belt:
Columbus
Madison
Des Moines
Indianapolis

Once considered Rust Belt but no longer fit criteria:
Chicago (There is still ample evidence of Chicago's Rust Belt roots all over the south side)
Grand Rapids
Minneapolis/St. Paul
Allentown
Most NE seaboard cities
Fort Wayne
Milwaukee


Showing signs of recovery
Cincinatti
Pittsburgh
Lansing

Starting recovery process
Cleveland
Detroit
Dayton

Cities in the Sunbelt that don't fit the Sunbelt criteria:
New Orleans
Memphis
Birmingham
Little Rock
Jackson MS
Montgomery
Louisville (Louisville is an interesting case it has a lot of rust belt qualities with decline(until city/county consolidation) and a history of heavy industry. It arguably sits on the Rust/Sun belt border not sure where it would belong.
Tucson - I doubt Tucson would ever cross peoples mind to be added to a the "in Sun Belt, but not Sun belt list". Tucson is the home to a major state flagship university, and is located in growth juggernaut Arizona. Yet its population growth is slower than Midwestern metros like Grand Rapids, Omaha, Des Moines, and Madison, and its economic growth barely registers. To me Tucson's numbers over the last 20 years would qualify it for this category.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:42 AM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,458,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Not sure your criteria here. Can a city once be Rust Belt, but diversify and no longer be in the category? I would define it as so:

In Rust Belt but never Rust Belt:
Columbus
Madison
Des Moines
Indianapolis

Once considered Rust Belt but no longer fit criteria:
Chicago (There is still ample evidence of Chicago's Rust Belt roots all over the south side)
Grand Rapids
Minneapolis/St. Paul
Allentown
Most NE seaboard cities
Fort Wayne
Milwaukee


Showing signs of recovery
Cincinatti
Pittsburgh
Lansing

Starting recovery process
Cleveland
Detroit
Dayton

Cities in the Sunbelt that don't fit the Sunbelt criteria:
New Orleans
Memphis
Birmingham
Little Rock
Jackson MS
Montgomery
Louisville (Louisville is an interesting case it has a lot of rust belt qualities with decline(until city/county consolidation) and a history of heavy industry. It arguably sits on the Rust/Sun belt border not sure where it would belong.
Tucson - I doubt Tucson would ever cross peoples mind to be added to a the "in Sun Belt, but not Sun belt list". Tucson is the home to a major state flagship university, and is located in growth juggernaut Arizona. Yet its population growth is slower than Midwestern metros like Grand Rapids, Omaha, Des Moines, and Madison, and its economic growth barely registers. To me Tucson's numbers over the last 20 years would qualify it for this category.

I don't think Minneapolis was ever considered rust belt. Pittsburgh is no longer rust belt. Baltimore could still be considered rust belt, not so much for industry anymore, but for blight.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:52 AM
 
29,873 posts, read 27,324,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Cities in the Sunbelt that don't fit the Sunbelt criteria:
New Orleans
Memphis
Birmingham
Little Rock
Jackson MS
Montgomery
Louisville (Louisville is an interesting case it has a lot of rust belt qualities with decline(until city/county consolidation) and a history of heavy industry. It arguably sits on the Rust/Sun belt border not sure where it would belong.
Tucson - I doubt Tucson would ever cross peoples mind to be added to a the "in Sun Belt, but not Sun belt list". Tucson is the home to a major state flagship university, and is located in growth juggernaut Arizona. Yet its population growth is slower than Midwestern metros like Grand Rapids, Omaha, Des Moines, and Madison, and its economic growth barely registers. To me Tucson's numbers over the last 20 years would qualify it for this category.
Louisville isn't in the Sunbelt; it's too far north.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
I don't think Minneapolis was ever considered rust belt. Pittsburgh is no longer rust belt. Baltimore could still be considered rust belt, not so much for industry anymore, but for blight.
Minneapolis most certainly was rust belt based on the number of manufacturing jobs it lost as well as core city decline in the 70s and 80s. The term rust belt was coined from a 1980s book that discussed the post industrial economic transition from manufacturing to a knowledge base. Based on the clinical definition almost every legacy city, including New York was affected by it. We here on city-data tend to only apply the definition as midwestern crap holes that haven’t experienced enough reinvestment to grow again. I think that’s short sighted.

I also disagree that Pittsburgh is no longer rust belt. I think a criteria for exiting that status should at least include population growth in the core and metro.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Louisville isn't in the Sunbelt; it's too far north.
I agree but if I start calling it Rustbelt people will get all worked up that itís too southern lol.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Minneapolis most certainly was rust belt based on the number of manufacturing jobs it lost as well as core city decline in the 70s and 80s. The term rust belt was coined from a 1980s book that discussed the post industrial economic transition from manufacturing to a knowledge base. Based on the clinical definition almost every legacy city, including New York was affected by it. We here on city-data tend to only apply the definition as midwestern crap holes that haven’t experienced enough reinvestment to grow again. I think that’s short sighted.

I also disagree that Pittsburgh is no longer rust belt. I think a criteria for exiting that status should at least include population growth in the core and metro.



I think rust belt most people consider industrial and blight. Population growth really doesn't matter for this, unless a city is losing population and cant control blight and financial loss. The birth rate is so much lower today, and households much smaller than they used to be. Baltimore might have a bit more growth than Pittsburgh but I argue the case can easily be made that Baltimore is still is rust belt, and Pittsburgh is not since around 2007.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:26 AM
 
3,952 posts, read 3,485,687 times
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Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
I think rust belt most people consider industrial and blight. Population growth really doesn't matter for this, unless a city is losing population and cant control blight and financial loss. The birth rate is so much lower today, and households much smaller than they used to be. Baltimore might have a bit more growth than Pittsburgh but I argue the case can easily be made that Baltimore is still is rust belt, and Pittsburgh is not since around 2007.
Well I think youíre splitting hairs here. No one else is trying to make a Pittsburgh/Baltimore comparison. Pittsburgh has definitely made a strong economic transition, but it still hasnít been enough to stave off decline. For the purpose of this discussion I think itís still a rustbelt city.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:30 AM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,458,168 times
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Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Well I think youíre splitting hairs here. No one else is trying to make a Pittsburgh/Baltimore comparison. Pittsburgh has definitely made a strong economic transition, but it still hasnít been enough to stave off decline. For the purpose of this discussion I think itís still a rustbelt city.



Pgh is not declining. It does have more jobs than it can fill though, many of which are hard to hire due to high technical qualifications. So its unemployment rate doesn't tell the whole story - they are worried that the reitrment of baby boomers will leave too many unfilled jobs
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