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Old 01-05-2019, 12:27 PM
 
892 posts, read 1,082,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
St Louis technically has light rail but has 3 underground stations and the entire system is grade separated
Actually MetroLink's Red Line has 3 underground stations (Convention Center, 8th & Pine, Stadium-partially) and the Blue Line has two as well (Skinker, Big Bend/U. City).
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Lebanon, OH
5,915 posts, read 6,340,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vter View Post
Does Cincinnati count? Subway was partially built but never opened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Subway
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Ha, no to be a subway requires trains and people, not just a tunnel. Might be interesting to have a thread about cities with abandoned projects like that though!
It went from a never used subway to a never used fallout shelter.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
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Do you guys consider light rail to be subway systems? I’ve always thought of subway systems to mean rapid transit.

And yes, I’m aware that the literal definition just means “underground” and in some parts of the world can refer to just walkways and underpasses, but I’m talking about the US/Canadian context of transit systems.

Also, you can add San Juan, PR Tren Urbano to the list, as Puerto Rico is part of The US. It may only be one line, but it is a true grade-separated rapid transit heavy rail line. It has both underground and elevated portions and even future plans for expansion.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:38 AM
 
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Yes both light rail and heavy rail that run underground are subways. Heavy rail that runs above ground is not a subway. Some people got lazy with the term and just starting using them interchangeably. and I think that also derived from people in NYC referring to the system in general as 'the subway' for short, since most of it really is underground. In London they are more specific -- they call the subway portion the Underground, and the non subway portion is called the Overground.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Yes both light rail and heavy rail that run underground are subways. Heavy rail that runs above ground is not a subway. Some people got lazy with the term and just starting using them interchangeably. and I think that also derived from people in NYC referring to the system in general as 'the subway' for short, since most of it really is underground. In London they are more specific -- they call the subway portion the Underground, and the non subway portion is called the Overground.
Your answer is technically correct but I think it’s common in The US context to refer to a rapid transit system as a “subway system” in the context of the OP. I also agree that this is probably a term that other cities picked up from NYC that kind of got misconstrued, like “downtown”.

Interestingly, 40% of NYC’s subway system is elevated, but we still call it the subway. The system just gets its name from the underground, even though the elevated tracks were around first.

OTOH Chicago’s Rapid transit is predominantly elevated so it’s called the L, even though it has underground portions.

Philly is interesting. Their rapid transit system only has 2 lines. One underground and one (primarily) elevated, so they call the underground line the subway, and the elevated line is called the el, so they actually use it correctly. Only problem is that the elevated line does have an underground section, and IIRC from when I used to live in the area, the underground part of that line is still called “the el”.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:31 AM
 
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When light rail is in a subway, it can operate much like heavy rail in a subway.

Light rail can mean anything from a streetcar to longish trains that can get up to freeway speed.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:27 PM
 
Location: The City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
When light rail is in a subway, it can operate much like heavy rail in a subway.

Light rail can mean anything from a streetcar to longish trains that can get up to freeway speed.


then would underground regional/commuter rail be a subway if it has multiple underground ROW separated stops? The one in Philly is nearly 2 miles long and 3 stops. For me no; I also don't consider the multiple underground stops and multiple lines of the light rail lines here a subway but that may semantics; as really HR or third rail is more of the rapid transit (to me synonymous with subway) but maybe outdated


it seems the biggest difference between most light rail and HR is the car length capacity and acceleration speed, HR generally can get to top speed much more quickly and has generally much larger capacity cars and more of them
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Copenhagen has a metro within the city, but is above ground before and after that. A new, underground expansion, has an expected completion date of October, 2019. I doubt they'll make it.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:01 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,991 posts, read 3,471,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
Copenhagen has a metro within the city, but is above ground before and after that. A new, underground expansion, has an expected completion date of October, 2019. I doubt they'll make it.
I was there last year and took the metro directly from the edge of the airport into the center. Pretty system.

I wish more American cities of the same size had something that nice.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,923 posts, read 3,642,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Yes both light rail and heavy rail that run underground are subways. Heavy rail that runs above ground is not a subway. Some people got lazy with the term and just starting using them interchangeably. and I think that also derived from people in NYC referring to the system in general as 'the subway' for short, since most of it really is underground. In London they are more specific -- they call the subway portion the Underground, and the non subway portion is called the Overground.
Not true about London. They call both the underground and above ground sections of the “Underground” either the tube or the underground. The “Overground” is a separate system. The only completely underground line is the Jubilee line. The rest of the underground lines are both above and below and they’re always the underground regardless. Same for NYC and “subway” as you correctly pointed out.

In the US because of the way that NYC uses “subway”, the word subway is used interchangeably with what much of the world calls “Metro” and that means rapid transit regardless of whether it’s above or below ground. And that’s what I’ve always known it to mean.

Some have suggested that new light rail lines like what’s planned in Seattle may be blurring that definition. Maybe, maybe not. If light rail starts behaving like a subway then I would call it that.
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