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Old 01-17-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,489 posts, read 16,169,219 times
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Most PATH riders are trying to get from Jersey City (or Newark or Hoboken) to NYC.

However, it's also used for local trips. I live by Journal Square and take it to get to Newport Mall or the Target store by Newport, or to go to various restaurants or friends who live by Exchange Place. Or to Hoboken. I'll usually bike or even walk down to the Grove Street station area, but sometimes I'll take PATH instead, especially in poor weather. So yeah, a lot of Jersey City residents use it to get around our little town. I've used it for intra-NYC trips too.

IMO, WMATA Metro is similar in that it's a suburban commuter railroad/urban subway hybrid.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:44 AM
 
6,981 posts, read 14,108,310 times
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Originally Posted by nick1218 View Post
for my picky purposes (I'm the op) this is more of an inter-city commuter railroad than a "transit system" to get around one particular city.
I don't mean to argue, just curious as to why you'd categorize it as such. I live in Journal Square also. I have friends off Grove St, Exchange Pl, and Newport. I regularly take PATH to see them. I take PATH to work in Newark. You can easily get to Hoboken as well.

The only reason PATH is seen as inferior is because MTA is next door right across the river. With that logic, you could honestly say every subway system is that way. MTA funnels everyone into Manhattan. Getting between neighborhoods east/west in Manhattan requires a bus, not subway unless you're going by the L. Getting between neighborhoods in BK or Queens requires a bus. Getting from Queens to Brooklyn almost always requires a transfer, unless you take the G, and that transfer is often somewhere in Manhattan. Without the G, MTA would have every single line routed through Manhattan at some point.

The El brings everyone into the Loop. The T brings everyone to downtown Boston. Except for a select few neighborhoods WMATA just funnels people to into the core of DC. BART only funnels people into SF.

It doesn't function for people to get around Newark, but it functions to get people around Hudson County and parts of Essex. It's hard to call it a subway system for one city as the JC and Hoboken boundaries are so small. But if you referred to it as Hudson County's subway system, it would make more sense. Union City and Bayonne residents can take the HBLR to PATH stations and they often do. People within JC take it between stops regularly. People from Harrison do the same. It's just not as obvious since the city boundaries are smaller.

But saying that a 24/7 heavy rail system mostly underground with service every 4 minutes during rush hour and every 20 minutes only late night on weekends is not a real subway is insane. PATH is shorter headways than most systems and is one of VERY FEW 24/7 systems in the world.
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Old 01-17-2019, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,123 posts, read 1,312,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
The only reason PATH is seen as inferior is because MTA is next door right across the river. With that logic, you could honestly say every subway system is that way. MTA funnels everyone into Manhattan. Getting between neighborhoods east/west in Manhattan requires a bus, not subway unless you're going by the L. Getting between neighborhoods in BK or Queens requires a bus. Getting from Queens to Brooklyn almost always requires a transfer, unless you take the G, and that transfer is often somewhere in Manhattan. Without the G, MTA would have every single line routed through Manhattan at some point.
Great post and great points all around regarding the PATH. I just want to add a little bit about Brooklyn and Queens. Getting between neighborhoods within the borough in both BK and Queens definitely does not require a bus, especially for Brooklyn. Brooklyn alone has not only larger subway coverage than anywhere else in the country outside Manhattan, but lots of connectivity between lines that make it possible to get around the borough by subway. I personally do not like buses at all, and I never need the bus to get around Brooklyn. And I live in BK and travel around the borough a lot.

Here’s a subway map of just Brooklyn. Tbh if someone didn’t know any better, this looks like it could be a complete transit map of any major city, and actually for The US (and even Canada too) this would probably be more than any city could ever hope to have (BK alone has more stations than even Chicago L). The highlighted portion in particular shows an impressive amount of connections/transfers. If you can make it to that section of the subway system, you can generally make it anywhere in BK, especially if traveling East and/or South.

https://ibb.co/cXpJxFj

Coney Island also serves as a large transfer point and transit hub in far BK South for those near all the beach neighborhoods. BK North offers pretty good connectivity as well. Broadway junction is a major transfer point in BK Noth, located way out East (aka far from Manhattan), which is very useful. If you can get to either Broadway Junction or the G train from BK North, you can pretty much go anywhere in BK relatively easily as well. The only real missed opportunities in BK North is a free transfer between the J/M with the G, and the L with the 3. But other than that it’s pretty good.

As I said earlier, I hate buses and never feel the need to use one when getting around BK. I never even need to transfer in Manhattan with the exception of getting either the 3/4 or the 2/5 — and that’s only because I live one stop away from Manhattan so it’s not really out of the way for me.

The subway in Queens isn’t as great as BK in terms of both coverage and connectivity, but I still wouldn’t say that getting around Queens necesssarily requires a bus either. If you’re in/near either Jackson Heights or Long Island City then you can go anywhere the subway reaches in Queens pretty easily, with the exception of the A and the lower part of the M. But those places and Jamaica are really the only parts of the system in Queens with any connectivity. It’s very possible to need a bus in Queens, though not always required.

As far as getting between Brooklyn and Queens, there’s more options than just the G. Almost every train in BK North has a Manhattan-bound direction and a Queens-bound direction. The J/Z, M, and A all run directly between BK and Queens too. The L, while it doesn’t have any stations officially in Queens, has a few on/near the borderline and these stations serve people in Both BK and Queens sides of the border. BK and Queens are pretty well-connected though. It’s true that you’ll often need to transfer between the 2, but that transfer can just as likely be in Brooklyn instead of Manhattan. Often that saves a lot of time.
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Old 01-18-2019, 07:39 AM
 
6,981 posts, read 14,108,310 times
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Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Great post and great points all around regarding the PATH. I just want to add a little bit about Brooklyn and Queens. Getting between neighborhoods within the borough in both BK and Queens definitely does not require a bus, especially for Brooklyn. Brooklyn alone has not only larger subway coverage than anywhere else in the country outside Manhattan, but lots of connectivity between lines that make it possible to get around the borough by subway. I personally do not like buses at all, and I never need the bus to get around Brooklyn. And I live in BK and travel around the borough a lot.

Hereís a subway map of just Brooklyn. Tbh if someone didnít know any better, this looks like it could be a complete transit map of any major city, and actually for The US (and even Canada too) this would probably be more than any city could ever hope to have (BK alone has more stations than even Chicago L). The highlighted portion in particular shows an impressive amount of connections/transfers. If you can make it to that section of the subway system, you can generally make it anywhere in BK, especially if traveling East and/or South.

https://ibb.co/cXpJxFj

Coney Island also serves as a large transfer point and transit hub in far BK South for those near all the beach neighborhoods. BK North offers pretty good connectivity as well. Broadway junction is a major transfer point in BK Noth, located way out East (aka far from Manhattan), which is very useful. If you can get to either Broadway Junction or the G train from BK North, you can pretty much go anywhere in BK relatively easily as well. The only real missed opportunities in BK North is a free transfer between the J/M with the G, and the L with the 3. But other than that itís pretty good.

As I said earlier, I hate buses and never feel the need to use one when getting around BK. I never even need to transfer in Manhattan with the exception of getting either the 3/4 or the 2/5 ó and thatís only because I live one stop away from Manhattan so itís not really out of the way for me.

The subway in Queens isnít as great as BK in terms of both coverage and connectivity, but I still wouldnít say that getting around Queens necesssarily requires a bus either. If youíre in/near either Jackson Heights or Long Island City then you can go anywhere the subway reaches in Queens pretty easily, with the exception of the A and the lower part of the M. But those places and Jamaica are really the only parts of the system in Queens with any connectivity. Itís very possible to need a bus in Queens, though not always required.

As far as getting between Brooklyn and Queens, thereís more options than just the G. Almost every train in BK North has a Manhattan-bound direction and a Queens-bound direction. The J/Z, M, and A all run directly between BK and Queens too. The L, while it doesnít have any stations officially in Queens, has a few on/near the borderline and these stations serve people in Both BK and Queens sides of the border. BK and Queens are pretty well-connected though. Itís true that youíll often need to transfer between the 2, but that transfer can just as likely be in Brooklyn instead of Manhattan. Often that saves a lot of time.
I mean obviously exaggerated a bit lol but outer parts of BK do not have the greatest subway connections. Anything near downtown BK and Atlantic Terminal are going to be great for transfers and getting to/from easily. However, get into places like Bensonhurst and similar neighborhoods, and you're only subway options go to/from Manhattan. Going east/west requires a bus.

Obviously nothing matches NYC for connectivity, but I still think it's crazy to think PATH is a commuter railroad and not a real subway system, just because a lot of end trips are into Manhattan. If MTA consolidated and took on PATH, its lines and maps would integrate perfectly with MTA already. Plenty of trips are done within Hudson County only.
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