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Old 01-04-2019, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
375 posts, read 346,584 times
Reputation: 458

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
Thanks for that. Idk enough about the individual details of the Baltimore region. But your explanation on Howard County, infrastructure maintenance, and airport supports what I'm saying. Maybe not entirely as strongly-worded or as in depth, but at least to some extent haha
Yeah, Baltimore City is positioned great for the future. It's relatively compact (92 square miles) and the core of the city continues to strengthen. A lot of people fail to see that it's actually a lot of our neighborhoods bordering the suburban jurisdictions that are struggling more today.

A city-county merger would have looked better for Baltimore back in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. But if the fate of the average suburban shopping mall is any indicator, it appears as though winter is coming for suburban america. Baltimore City being the largest independent city in the United States finds itself in a prime position to ride that urban wave of resurgence.
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Old 01-04-2019, 01:47 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Although Denver isn't without blemish with respect to its racial history, the scale and scope of the issues are quite different in cities that never experienced large demographic shifts in the pre-Civil Rights era (eg, destination cities during the Great Migration) or never had large Black populations from the beginning. For instance, I couldn't really imagine a similar scenario playing out in the Denver area today: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...res-light-rail
The main minority group in Denver and the Denver metro is Hispanic. Denver public schools are 33.79% H Hispanic, similar to the city population overall.

Other metro districts with large Hispanic populations are Adams-12, Adams-14, Aurora, Brighton, Westminster. All have 23% or more Hispanic population. The metro district with the highest black population is Aurora with 17%, followed by Denver at 9.93% .

So I don't buy "that's different" WRT Denver and school finance.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:19 PM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,424,696 times
Reputation: 18534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
The main minority group in Denver and the Denver metro is Hispanic. Denver public schools are 33.79% H Hispanic, similar to the city population overall.

Other metro districts with large Hispanic populations are Adams-12, Adams-14, Aurora, Brighton, Westminster. All have 23% or more Hispanic population. The metro district with the highest black population is Aurora with 17%, followed by Denver at 9.93% .

So I don't buy "that's different" WRT Denver and school finance.
Let's not be willfully obtuse here. I'm talking about historic large-scale urban demographic shifts and the reasons they happened in other cities (where that actually happened) compared to Denver, which didn't experience such changes to nearly the same degree. I never said anything about minority student population statistics because that says nothing in and of itself. Historic context is needed.
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Old 01-04-2019, 02:22 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Let's not be willfully obtuse here. I'm talking about historic large-scale urban demographic shifts and the reasons they happened in other cities (where that actually happened) compared to Denver, which didn't experience such changes to nearly the same degree. I never said anything about minority student population statistics because that says nothing in and of itself. Historic context is needed.
Well, that is not what I was responding to. I was responding to a post claiming city schools were underfunded. I showed that is not the case in Denver. I doubt you know much about Denver history, either.
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Old 01-04-2019, 03:25 PM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,424,696 times
Reputation: 18534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, that is not what I was responding to. I was responding to a post claiming city schools were underfunded. I showed that is not the case in Denver. I doubt you know much about Denver history, either.
Why would you quote my post if I wasn't the one you were responding to?

I know that Denver didn't have a big Black population in the mid-20th century which means it didn't have the historic large-scale racial dynamics that uniquely affected issues like schooling. Yes it's had its issues with busing and gentrification and all of that, but the difference is one of degree.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:35 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Why would you quote my post if I wasn't the one you were responding to?

I know that Denver didn't have a big Black population in the mid-20th century which means it didn't have the historic large-scale racial dynamics that uniquely affected issues like schooling. Yes it's had its issues with busing and gentrification and all of that, but the difference is one of degree.
I quoted your post because it was the usual "that's different" that comes up when I (or anyone) can refute some urban advocate, especially about this school issue. Denver and virtually every city in the country has a huge tax base, particularly from businesses, whereas most suburbs have mainly residences. The idea that urban schools are underfunded compared to their suburbs is erroneous. You're hung up on the black race; Denver had a growing Hispanic population throughout the latter part of the 20th century. The Poundstone Amendment was passed by the Colorado voters over the issue of busing in DPS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poundstone_Amendment

See this comparing Chicago Public Schools to the average for Illinois school districts (most of which are in the Chicago suburbs):
https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/d...id=15016299025

I'm not going to look up every big city district in the country; I've given two examples, in great detail for Denver; you can look up some more if you wish.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:11 PM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,424,696 times
Reputation: 18534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I quoted your post because it was the usual "that's different" that comes up when I (or anyone) can refute some urban advocate, especially about this school issue. Denver and virtually every city in the country has a huge tax base, particularly from businesses, whereas most suburbs have mainly residences. The idea that urban schools are underfunded compared to their suburbs is erroneous. You're hung up on the black race; Denver had a growing Hispanic population throughout the latter part of the 20th century. The Poundstone Amendment was passed by the Colorado voters over the issue of busing in DPS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poundstone_Amendment

See this comparing Chicago Public Schools to the average for Illinois school districts (most of which are in the Chicago suburbs):
https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/d...id=15016299025

I'm not going to look up every big city district in the country; I've given two examples, in great detail for Denver; you can look up some more if you wish.
There are always exceptions to all rules/trends and there are reasons for that, which I pointed out.

And I'm not "hung up on the black race;" I actually happen to BE Black and we have a particular history in this country when it comes to...well everything, but certainly when it comes to matters of school funding which were impacted by White flight, mass suburbanization, discriminatory housing practices, and the like. The same story played out in tons of cities across the country and there was a very real pattern that was put in place. That is the precise context in which jessemh431 made his statements and that can't be dismissed. So yeah, a city that didn't deal with those issues, at least not to the same extent, will be different.

Now with that said, we're in the middle of another demographic shift of sorts as Whites move back to cities and poverty is starting to trickle out more and more to the suburbs but we're still in the beginning stages of this era. On top of that you have the marked increase in charter schools that skews things as well. Time will tell how this all plays out though.
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,110,808 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
The city and county of Honolulu are one and the same, extending over the entirety of Oahu Island.
Which is why I think we should treat Honolulu as one of the largest cities in the country. It's bizarre that people treat Honolulu as a city of 350,000 because of some arbitrary CBD boundary that doesn't extend over the entirety of the city/county.
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:34 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,663,662 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
There are always exceptions to all rules/trends and there are reasons for that, which I pointed out.

And I'm not "hung up on the black race;" I actually happen to BE Black and we have a particular history in this country when it comes to...well everything, but certainly when it comes to matters of school funding which were impacted by White flight, mass suburbanization, discriminatory housing practices, and the like. The same story played out in tons of cities across the country and there was a very real pattern that was put in place. That is the precise context in which jessemh431 made his statements and that can't be dismissed. So yeah, a city that didn't deal with those issues, at least not to the same extent, will be different.

Now with that said, we're in the middle of another demographic shift of sorts as Whites move back to cities and poverty is starting to trickle out more and more to the suburbs but we're still in the beginning stages of this era. On top of that you have the marked increase in charter schools that skews things as well. Time will tell how this all plays out though.
Here's another exception - Pittsburgh: https://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/a...t-comparisons/
I suggest reading the whole thing, I will note this: "It should be clear by this point that the very worst-performing districts are not being shortchanged for resources." Pittsburgh is in that group and has the highest per-pupil funding of the districts surveyed. "Oh, that's different", right?

It's an urban legend that city schools have a lower tax base (also preposterous if you look at the businesses in cities) than their suburban counterparts.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:49 AM
 
29,947 posts, read 27,424,696 times
Reputation: 18534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Here's another exception - Pittsburgh: https://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/a...t-comparisons/
I suggest reading the whole thing, I will note this: "It should be clear by this point that the very worst-performing districts are not being shortchanged for resources." Pittsburgh is in that group and has the highest per-pupil funding of the districts surveyed. "Oh, that's different", right?

It's an urban legend that city schools have a lower tax base (also preposterous if you look at the businesses in cities) than their suburban counterparts.
I give up.
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