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Old 01-06-2019, 08:37 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I give up.
Yes, believing in urban legends is fun, isn't it? It sure doesn't help with policy setting.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:41 AM
 
29,908 posts, read 27,355,630 times
Reputation: 18443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Yes, believing in urban legends is fun, isn't it? It sure doesn't help with policy setting.
You're missing the bigger point, and quite willfully I might add. It's not worth it to engage in further discussion.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:14 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
You're missing the bigger point, and quite willfully I might add. It's not worth it to engage in further discussion.
How could I be doing something willfully when I don't even know what you're talking about? To repeat, I responded to a statement by jessemh431 about the superior funding of suburban schools. For some reason you don't want to believe that city schools have a bigger tax base. I looked up a lot of statistics on Denver, which has at least one Fortune 500 company within its city limits (Davita Health Care Partners), also there are a number of "(l)arge Denver-area employers that have headquarters elsewhere include Lockheed Martin Corp., United Airlines, Kroger Co. and Xcel Energy, Inc."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver#Economy
In fact, I would suggest you read the above link.

How about YOU providing some statistics that show the opposite, that city schools have lower per-pupil funding than their suburban counterparts, instead of arguing with me.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:22 PM
 
9,381 posts, read 9,536,885 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
How could I be doing something willfully when I don't even know what you're talking about? To repeat, I responded to a statement by jessemh431 about the superior funding of suburban schools. For some reason you don't want to believe that city schools have a bigger tax base. I looked up a lot of statistics on Denver, which has at least one Fortune 500 company within its city limits (Davita Health Care Partners), also there are a number of "(l)arge Denver-area employers that have headquarters elsewhere include Lockheed Martin Corp., United Airlines, Kroger Co. and Xcel Energy, Inc."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver#Economy
In fact, I would suggest you read the above link.

How about YOU providing some statistics that show the opposite, that city schools have lower per-pupil funding than their suburban counterparts, instead of arguing with me.
You understand urban school dealing with generational poverty thatís widespread amount itís students have to do way more than rich suburban schools right?

Many urban schools provide 3 meals a day to students not 1 for example.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:31 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
You understand urban school dealing with generational poverty that’s widespread amount it’s students have to do way more than rich suburban schools right?

Many urban schools provide 3 meals a day to students not 1 for example.
I probably understand a lot more about education than many on this forum who think they are experts. Not accusing you mind you. You do realize those meals are provided with federal funds, no? No, I bet you don't.
https://schoolnutrition.org/uploaded...alsProgram.pdf
https://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/nation...h-program-nslp
https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/fact-sheet

The school districts are not raising money to feed these kids. In fact, when you factor in federal grants for impoverished kids, English Language Learners and all the rest, the city schools have even more money.
https://www2.ed.gov/programs/titleiparta/index.html
https://www.languagemagazine.com/201...r-development/

I'm not saying these schools don't need this stuff. I'm just trying to dispel this urban legend.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-06-2019 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:39 PM
 
9,381 posts, read 9,536,885 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I probably understand a lot more about education than many on this forum who think they are experts. Not accusing you mind you. You do realize those meals are provided with federal funds, no? No, I bet you don't.
https://schoolnutrition.org/uploaded...alsProgram.pdf
https://www.fns.usda.gov/nslp/nation...h-program-nslp
https://www.fns.usda.gov/sbp/fact-sheet
You understand there are a lot of costs affiliated with serving breakfast beyond the cost of the food?
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:48 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
You understand there are a lot of costs affiliated with serving breakfast beyond the cost of the food?
Please provide some documentation that individual schools have to pay for those costs from their own funds. See this: National School Lunch Program - Office for Food and Nutrition Programs
"Schools in the lunch program get cash subsidies and donated commodities from the U.S. Department of Agriculture for each meal they serve. In return, they must serve lunches that meet Federal requirements, and they must offer free or reduced-price lunches to eligible children."

Does not specify what the cash subsidies are for.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:57 PM
 
9,381 posts, read 9,536,885 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Please provide some documentation that individual schools have to pay for those costs from their own funds. See this: National School Lunch Program - Office for Food and Nutrition Programs
"Schools in the lunch program get cash subsidies and donated commodities from the U.S. Department of Agriculture for each meal they serve. In return, they must serve lunches that meet Federal requirements, and they must offer free or reduced-price lunches to eligible children."

Does not specify what the cash subsidies are for.
Financial Management- Office for Food and Nutrition Programs

Itís for food.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:05 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,993 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Not necessarily. One line just says "School Lunch and Breakfast Reimbursements". That could include a lot of things, such as napkins. Now you'll go off on the napkin budget, or the straw budget or some such.

Basically, what you've done is a diversion. You're claiming city schools spend more because they serve more meals. I have a big surprise for you, many suburban schools do the breakfast program, too. Mine does. Aren't you urbanists always telling us that poverty is moving to the suburbs? (As if it hasn't always been there?)
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:28 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 14,091,290 times
Reputation: 4543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
How about YOU providing some statistics that show the opposite, that city schools have lower per-pupil funding than their suburban counterparts, instead of arguing with me.
Umm, hi. I did. And you're willfully ignoring them, as Mutiny stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
"In many of the school districts spending the most, these proportions are drastically different. According to Griffith, New York does very little to regulate how much revenue school districts can raise locally. As a result, six of the top spending districts are in wealthy neighborhoods in Long Island and Westchester County and get an outsized share — from 73% to 93% — of revenue from local sources."
https://247wallst.com/special-report...hest-spending/
^There are no poor cities on this list.

"IN MORE THAN HALF OF the states in the U.S., the poorest school districts do not receive funding to address their students' increased needs – just the latest data point to shine a spotlight on funding gaps that plague the country's public education system.

School districts with the highest rates of poverty receive about $1,000 less per student in state and local funding than those with the lowest rates of poverty, according to a new report released Tuesday by The Education Trust.

While the funding gaps among states vary significantly, Illinois, Missouri, New York and Alabama rank among the worst. In Illinois, for example, the poorest districts received 22 percent less in state and local funding than the lowest-poverty districts...

When accounting for the additional needs, the report shows that highest-poverty districts receive about $2,000, or 16 percent, less per student than low-poverty districts...

The report also looked a funding disparities between districts serving the most students of color and those serving the least, finding an even larger funding disparity than that of poverty levels. On average, districts serving the most students of color received about $1,800 per student, or 16 percent."
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...t-less-funding

"In 2012-13, the typical wealthy Pennsylvania school district had about $3,058 more per student than a typical poor district, according to Mark Price, a labor economist at the liberal Keystone Research Center.

By 2016-17, that gap was $3,778, according to Price.

In Philadelphia, for instance, the School District spent $9,062 per student in 2016-17, excluding construction costs. The typical wealthy district, meanwhile, spent $15,748, according to Price's analysis, which looked at the 100 wealthiest districts and used enrollment figures that accounted for differing levels of need among students.

The analysis also highlights taxing differences between school districts. In 2016-17, the plaintiff school districts spent less but taxed at higher rates than the state's wealthiest districts."
Gap between rich and poor Pa. school districts has grown, funding lawsuit says

"School districts that serve large populations of students of color and students from low-income families receive far less funding than those serving White and more affluent students...

In the U.S. today, school districts serving the largest populations of Black, Latino, or American Indian students receive roughly $1,800, or 13 percent, less per student in state and local funding than those serving the fewest students of color."
https://edtrust.org/resource/funding-gaps-2018/
Here is my post. Again. Reposted for your courtesy. Bolding the portions that prove districts with high numbers of minorities, often urban districts, are underfunded.

You have used Denver and Pittsburgh as an example. Great. Even if I want to say you're right on those two, what's your rebuttal for literally the entire rest of the country as stated in the articles I provided you? Two cities in a country of several tens of millions of students does not refute the facts I provided. If you choose to not accept the facts, then you're being willfully ignorant as Mutiny stated, and there is no hope for you; you're just ignorant and enjoy being ignorant. If, however, you'd like to rebut my sources with valid sources of your own, we can engage further.

Up to this point, you've only pointed to the fact that ok, Denver and Pittsburgh get just slightly more than their suburbs. However, you've ignored my sources that state urban districts have increased needs, thereby reducing that amount's effectiveness, translating into an underfunding in the urban district.
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