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Old 01-11-2019, 04:48 AM
 
29,954 posts, read 27,450,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
There are Floridian natives there. Also it is undeniably in the southern US.

I've always considered the idea of kicking south Florida out of the south just because of its extreme diversity of people, would be akin to kicking NYC out of the Northeast for the same reason.

I wonder why the culture of the north is so much more acceptably malleable than the south.
Because the Northeastern cities were magnets for immigrants early in their histories and have been defined by those cultures for about as long as they have actually been cities. With few exceptions (most notably New Orleans), it's not the same story in the South where immigration on a larger scale is mostly a newer phenomenon.

 
Old 01-11-2019, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,654 posts, read 27,097,861 times
Reputation: 9585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
I lived in Miami as a teenager having moved from NY. We never considered ourselves "Southern", nor did most of our neighbors who had also moved from the NE and to a smaller extent, the Midwest. Admittedly, many white Southerners lived there, including FL and Miami natives (who called themselves "Florida crackers"). As for the blacks, many (most) of Miami's blacks have roots in the Caribbean, not so much the South. There were no plantations in FL South of the Panhandle, and there was no southbound Great Migration in the 20th century.
Huh? A great many of South Florida’s black population came from Georgia and South Carolina. I don’t know why people try to make these people disappear. Also, of course you wouldn’t consider yourselves Southern. You were originally from New York.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,654 posts, read 27,097,861 times
Reputation: 9585
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinytr View Post
The international community around the Miami area is much more extensive and visible compared to almost anywhere in the U.S, let alone those places..
What makes you think it’s that much more visible in these areas? Especially compared to Houston? For instance, he brought up the Puerto Rucan population. I can bring up that both Houston and DFW have a much larger Asian population that Miami with Houston approaching 600k. Three times larger than South Florida.

Last edited by Spade; 01-11-2019 at 07:09 AM..
 
Old 01-11-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,747,567 times
Reputation: 5379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Because the Northeastern cities were magnets for immigrants early in their histories and have been defined by those cultures for about as long as they have actually been cities. With few exceptions (most notably New Orleans), it's not the same story in the South where immigration on a larger scale is mostly a newer phenomenon.
Does that imply that southern culture fears and detests change by nature? As much as I'd hate to say so, it seems to be the case more and more.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 12:11 PM
 
Location: North Caroline
264 posts, read 133,378 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Does that imply that southern culture fears and detests change by nature? As much as I'd hate to say so, it seems to be the case more and more.
It's not that Southern culture fears and detests change... it's that Southern culture is largely a product of a lot of non-change, both good and bad. Holding onto tradition is not necessarily a bad thing in this ever-changing world, where culture is largely becoming more and more generic and mainstream in many ways. It's the "bad" traditions, the harmful behaviors and beliefs and customs, that paint an unfair, negative picture of what Southern culture is and isn't.

Change for the better, in terms of racial harmony, economic prosperity, and community revitalization ought to be welcomed by everyone. But I don't see a damn problem with Southern culture wanting to preserve its speech, food, music, mannerisms, and overall way of life in these regards. Many aspects of Southern culture have changed not only the South, but America as a whole. How can Southern culture detest change if it itself is also ever-changing (and acceptive of it), in many ways? Southerners, and other Americans, have a lot to be proud of the South for.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 01:06 PM
 
29,954 posts, read 27,450,839 times
Reputation: 18547
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Does that imply that southern culture fears and detests change by nature? As much as I'd hate to say so, it seems to be the case more and more.
Historically that was more so the case but not *quite* as much these days, with a few somewhat obvious exceptions.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,214 posts, read 2,843,955 times
Reputation: 4511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
Technically DC is north of the midline of the east coast
Along the I-95, the midpoint of the East Coast is somewhere between Emporia, Virginia and the Virginia/North Carolina border. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly where, but that's the specific area, less than a 10-mile radius...

Everything north of Emporia is clearly and obviously on the northern half of the East Coast, though I'm not sure that helps your narrative...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelTerritory View Post
While a place with a high Asian population percentage is not typically Southern at all, there are still many prominent Asian communities in the South-- Vietnamese communities on the Gulf coast, Koreans in Atlanta, Chinese in the Mississippi Delta who have been there since the 1800s, etc. Just want to clarify that just because someone is ethnically Asian, it does not mean they cannot be culturally Southern.

Watch this video y'all, it's awesome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NMrqGHr5zE
That was an awesome video and it's a real stereotype-buster. Great job of highlighting Asian communities in the South, and there are many more scattered about (Charlotte and Fayetteville NC have notable communities off the top of my head)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelTerritory View Post
NoVa is a distinct outlier, and often doesn't identify with Virginia
I really think this is repeated so much that people start repeating it as fact without knowing if it's true or not...

Northern Virginia is not nearly the outlier this goofy board says it is, and Northern Virginians do identify with Virginia. NoVa is no more distinct than the other regions of VA, from Central to Southwest to Southside to Tidewater, they are all unique, and yet ALL--yes, including my beloved NoVa--they are ALL very Virginian...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
Yup.. just like the op's map showed. I agree, there is a noticeable difference as you go South of here. I was in Richmond this weekend and it's not uncommon to hear a Southern light accent here and there from the local residents and in DC you'll only here it from someone that moved there from the South.
I don't know what the point of this comment was, as the typical Richmond accent isn't southern. It isn't uncommon to hear southern accents in Richmond, but so? Not really getting the point here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVA_guy View Post
Yep. I donít have a problem with the south but itís intellectually dishonest to say NoVa is the south. Now Virginia as a whole is a different story imo.
This guy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
The architecture, painted brick, magnolias, crepe myrtles, street names .
Spence, you're making too much sense again. Remember, there is nothing southern about DC, let's continue to repeat it until true!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
There are Floridian natives there. Also it is undeniably in the southern US.

I've always considered the idea of kicking south Florida out of the south just because of its extreme diversity of people, would be akin to kicking NYC out of the Northeast for the same reason.

I wonder why the culture of the north is so much more acceptably malleable than the south.
I feel EXACTLY the same way...
 
Old 01-11-2019, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,747,567 times
Reputation: 5379
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelTerritory View Post
It's not that Southern culture fears and detests change... it's that Southern culture is largely a product of a lot of non-change, both good and bad. Holding onto tradition is not necessarily a bad thing in this ever-changing world, where culture is largely becoming more and more generic and mainstream in many ways. It's the "bad" traditions, the harmful behaviors and beliefs and customs, that paint an unfair, negative picture of what Southern culture is and isn't.

Change for the better, in terms of racial harmony, economic prosperity, and community revitalization ought to be welcomed by everyone. But I don't see a damn problem with Southern culture wanting to preserve its speech, food, music, mannerisms, and overall way of life in these regards. Many aspects of Southern culture have changed not only the South, but America as a whole. How can Southern culture detest change if it itself is also ever-changing (and acceptive of it), in many ways? Southerners, and other Americans, have a lot to be proud of the South for.
I don't see any problem with it either. I'm right there with you in terms of respecting the positives of southern culture and I wouldn't aim to change that.

What I do see, however, is a lot of southerners denouncing areas of the south that have changed over time, transplants or not. That's where I raise an eyebrow. I mean, NYC, Boston and Chicago no more represent the small town north than Houston, Atlanta and Miami represent the small town south. But nobody is debating whether or not NYC, Chicago and Boston are northern. People are always arguing about Miami, Houston and Atlanta.

You could boil it down to northern transplants in those cities being a big reason but I think that's blown way out of proportion, especially on City-Data. Aside from that, a lot of ex-southerners live in NYC, Chicago and Boston too.

I'm not accusing you of anything, just airing my thoughts on the matter. Seems like there is a double standard in practice when it comes to the urban south.

Since I can feel it creeping up on me because of this topic I may as well address this preemptively; the reason I don't consider Maryland or Delaware southern is based on a combination of culture and geography, flora/fauna/climate, etc.

The reason I defend Florida as southern is because of the same criteria. As much as it has transformed over the last 60 years in terms of residents, it's still more southern across the board.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 06:06 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,749 posts, read 6,162,756 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Really now?
I'm from Miami and we don't consider ourselves to be "Southerners".
The people who most identify with being southern in Miami are African Americans for the most part since many migrated to the city from other places in the south.
Miami is also well over 50% foreign born so how can you say that Miamians consider themselves to be "Southern"?
Some of you do.

My wife's family is originally from Miami. They don't claim to be anything but southern. Native and foreign born celebrities are saying they're form the south. I was just watching a show about the kids of former Cartel Crew on VH1, from Cuba, Colombia telling you that "this is the south."

By your logic, NYC isn't Northeastern because there so many foreign born citizens.
 
Old 01-11-2019, 06:11 PM
 
7,279 posts, read 13,539,680 times
Reputation: 3610
Didn’t read the whole thread, but I’m of the opinion that urban vs rural is a much starker divide (in the south and elsewhere) than any contiguous region.
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