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Old 01-14-2019, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
561 posts, read 539,324 times
Reputation: 1061

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
I was just noting that I agreed with the OPs map showing the border being somewhere South of DC. You start to notice Southern like characteristics like accents once you're in Richmond. I'm not sure what the specific accent is but it definitely sounds Southern light-ish to an outsider.

Also the few folks here that have said DC is culturally southern (reminder that ops map was about cultural lines) has said nothing else besides historical lines and the Black connection. What about DC is culturally southern to you about the daily lives of its residents.. the pace? the food? the hospitality? the accent? the commuting habits?

If you were to take a person with no historical reference and placed them in DC today they probably would not think they were in a Southern city.
As the nation's capital with all of the competing and special cultural forces that brings, DC is ultimately special in my view. I don't think that necessarily makes the city northern, or flat out in the North. I really don't think it's hard to say the city is in the Mid-Atlantic or that it is a city in the South, without possessing that particular culture. To be fair, architecturally (look at Richmond, Alexandria, Annapolis, etc.); historically (yes, the Black culture, but then there's a historic plantation-"Arlington House," now a national cemetery a stone's throw from the Lincoln Memorial; Confederate general Albert Pike Statue's in Judiciary Square, the recently removed stained glass window in the Nat'l Cathedral, etc.); demographically (only the city itself, compare to Richmond); etc. If you walk around DC and have never spent time in an upper-south or Mid-Atlantic southern city, you may automatically associate it with the North, but it's not that simple. Whole region is a transitional area. Residents of DC have never liked the idea that there'd be any connection with the 'bama' or 'country' South, but come on. There are arguments to be made. /devil's advocate

I mean you could easily say someone thrown into Richmond, without knowing exactly where they were, would mis-place the region. Not because the city isn't southern, but because it has Mid-Atlantic characteristics that are otherwise atypical for the region. Atyplical characteristic do not dis-posses you of the region you're in.

E.g., Richmond (Mid-Atlantic)
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5539...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5461...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5504...7i13312!8i6656

But then also Richmond (Southern),

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5407...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5351...7i13312!8i6656

 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,052,687 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
You've bought into the popular 'alternative' history pushed by many Miamians here, desperate to deny any connection to their own region. It simply isn't true to claim 'most' were Caribbean, it's an oft repeated myth.



Absolutely NOT true. Look it up, but you won't like what you find.
It is amazing how people think most of Miami and South Florida blacks were Caribbean. It is laughable.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:38 AM
 
2,507 posts, read 2,269,683 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquest1 View Post
As the nation's capital with all of the competing and special cultural forces that brings, DC is ultimately special in my view. I don't think that necessarily makes the city northern, or flat out in the North. I really don't think it's hard to say the city is in the Mid-Atlantic or that it is a city in the South, without possessing that particular culture. To be fair, architecturally (look at Richmond, Alexandria, Annapolis, etc.); historically (yes, the Black culture, but then there's a historic plantation-"Arlington House," now a national cemetery a stone's throw from the Lincoln Memorial; Confederate general Albert Pike Statue's in Judiciary Square, the recently removed stained glass window in the Nat'l Cathedral, etc.); demographically (only the city itself, compare to Richmond); etc. If you walk around DC and have never spent time in an upper-south or Mid-Atlantic southern city, you may automatically associate it with the North, but it's not that simple. Whole region is a transitional area. Residents of DC have never liked the idea that there'd be any connection with the 'bama' or 'country' South, but come on. There are arguments to be made. /devil's advocate

I mean you could easily say someone thrown into Richmond, without knowing exactly where they were, would mis-place the region. Not because the city isn't southern, but because it has Mid-Atlantic characteristics that are otherwise atypical for the region. Atyplical characteristic do not dis-posses you of the region you're in.

E.g., Richmond (Mid-Atlantic)
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5539...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5461...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5504...7i13312!8i6656

But then also Richmond (Southern),

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5407...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5351...7i13312!8i6656
My argument isn't that DC is specifically Northern only. Definitely agree that there are influences from both sides but I do think that with current standings, DC's cultural ties to it's Northern neighbors vastly outshine the reverse.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:52 AM
 
900 posts, read 765,387 times
Reputation: 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
I've got some time... below are examples from a religion aspect.

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2...ican-religion/

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2...ican-religion/

https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2...ican-religion/

I mean there's just so many more examples that shows DC's relationship to it's northern neighbors being much stronger then the reverse from anything like the shows people watch to life expectancy to the extents of where yall is said and sweet tea is served..
What you failed to post is that church attendance is actually higher in Washington DC than in Virginia. Those maps also show that DC looks very much like New Orleans
 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:53 AM
 
2,507 posts, read 2,269,683 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
What you failed to post is that church attendance is actually higher in Washington DC than in Virginia. Those maps also show that DC looks very much like New Orleans
Along with Southern Florida. But you can see that there is little disconnect with DC from it's Northern neighbors while there is a strong cutoff line just South. And in response to your previous post, geographically DC is north of the east coast midpoint.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 08:56 AM
 
900 posts, read 765,387 times
Reputation: 1195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
Along with Southern Florida. But you can see that there is little disconnect with DC from it's Northern neighbors.
True. But it isn’t an anomaly either.

And the first map you posted shows the DC (and Baltimore) are different from the NE (no Orange north of Baltimore, but every other Southern city is also orange).
 
Old 01-14-2019, 09:01 AM
 
2,507 posts, read 2,269,683 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
True. But it isn’t an anomaly either.

And the first map you posted shows the DC (and Baltimore) are different from the NE (no Orange north of Baltimore, but every other Southern city is also orange).

It speaks volumes imo in regards to the daily lives of the local residents. There's clearly a stronger kinship to it's Northern neighbors. This isn't a rag on the South. I just don't see how DC is a culturally Southern City when almost any topic that relates to culture has it strongly correlated to the North.

The orange is PG County because of the heavy African American population. PG County is usually the outlier in alot of these cases while more heavily populated Montgomery and Fairfax Counties are the opposite.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 09:03 AM
 
900 posts, read 765,387 times
Reputation: 1195
But the first map places it is the South. And the other two show similarities to other areas in the South.
What’s culturally Northern? Southern? The demographics place the city in the South.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 09:07 AM
 
2,507 posts, read 2,269,683 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer114 View Post
But the first map places it is the South. And the other two show similarities to other areas in the South.
What’s culturally Northern? Southern? The demographics place the city in the South.
I'm not understanding your question... The first map shows the DC area being mostly dark green except in heavily African American counties like PG. The dark green encompasses larger areas and populations for the area and visually dwarfs the orange. As you go North of here, all you see is dark green whereas south of Nova is basically all light green and orange.

The bigger picture to see here is the line where dark green/blue meet light green.

At the end of the day, if you were to show someone the "Southern" experience, would DC even fall within your top 10 list?

Last edited by Ebck120; 01-14-2019 at 09:34 AM..
 
Old 01-14-2019, 09:45 AM
 
419 posts, read 127,957 times
Reputation: 786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Native Okie here, that's pretty rare except when a weather or radio guy discusses weather patterns...and often Texas and Arkansas are included in the conversation.

The breakdown culturally for Oklahomans (i.e. the way we see ourselves) is just plain ol' Oklahoma Okie, Southwestern, Southern, Western, and then Midwestern. But if it is "Midwestern" it's rarely in conjunction with the greater Midwest such as Indiana, Ohio, Illinois, etc...and certainly not the Upper Midwest like Michigan, Minnesota, or Whisky.

I work with a guy from Minnesota, he routinely refers to Oklahoma as the South. Oklahoma is obviously more of a hybrid of western and southern. I see it much more as SOUTHwestern (Oklahoma, Texas, western Arkansas) as opposed to SouthWESTERN (New Mexico and Arizona) although there are a few similarities there too. "Midwestern" as used in the general consensus of what comprises the Midwest (Kansas and above and points east) is the least accurate in describing Oklahoma. Also, while some do, very few people here in Oklahoma associate Oklahoma with the Deep South. Likewise, we rarely associate purely with the Midwest (again, the classical understanding of that term/region) either. It's certainly not the Midwest. It's certainly not the Deep South. It's a good mixture of Southern and Western with a very good measure of the ranching/cattle culture of the Southwest. It's Southwestern more than anything else because of culture, history, and topography. Not to mention the Native American elements and history that squarely distance it from states north and east of it.


OU chant mentions the "the western sky..."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhyv3V0leeI
I've always seen you as a crossroads. There are areas that resemble and fit with the Midwest (Plains Midwest). Areas that resemble and fit with the South. Areas that resemble and fit with the Southwest/west. It's a pretty culturally unique state that doesn't neatly fit into any one region.

I've visited many times and never found the places I spent time (Tulsa and Stillwater) to be much of a culture shock from central Iowa, honestly. Heading into Stillwater from the north, that part of Oklahoma felt completely Midwestern. Fields, flatland, grain elevators dotting the horizon. But that said, driving the route from Tulsa to Dallas, you definitely get the feeling you're in the South. The appearance of the towns, the accents, the churches, etc. Having driven 40 to the Grand Canyon, once you get about an hour out of OKC, that western feel becomes present. I've never been to Black Mesa, but based on pictures, it looks like Arizona. Very diverse place.
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