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Old 01-14-2019, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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I think there's more than just those two categories, though. I'd include "salty south" for the part of the South thats known for beaches and tourism (much of lower Florida, maybe pockets between Georgia and Virginia, plus the Texas coast.) " and "plains south" for Oklahoma and Texas. Also, no part of Texas is "upper south." Especially down to the coast? No way.

 
Old 01-14-2019, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius View Post
I don't know that the Virginia Tidewater is "Deep South." I've always thought of the Deep South as beginning somewhere in the SC lowcountry and stretching west into Mississippi. Tidewater is like a "shallow south"

Whatever color Tidewater should be, I'd expand it across the Chesapeake Bay to Northampton and Accomack counties in VA, and up through Salisbury to Sussex County, DE and Denton, MD. And I wouldn't be afraid to paint the area from St. Marys through Chesapeake Beach, maybe even up to Annapolis. All of that is old Tidewater, and it's part of the South.

Can't forget Louisana, now
 
Old 01-14-2019, 01:48 PM
 
29,905 posts, read 27,345,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
I think there's more than just those two categories, though. I'd include "salty south" for the part of the South thats known for beaches and tourism (much of lower Florida, maybe pockets between Georgia and Virginia, plus the Texas coast.) " and "plains south" for Oklahoma and Texas. Also, no part of Texas is "upper south." Especially down to the coast? No way.
Those are the two major divisions of the South historically, but they are extremely broad. Subregions (eg, the Gulf Coast, Piedmont, Lowcountry, Texas Triangle, MS Delta, etc) are much more distinct in just about every way these days for obvious reasons.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 02:58 PM
 
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Really, dividing a country this size into 4 regions is kind of silly.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowanFarmer View Post
Really, dividing a country this size into 4 regions is kind of silly.
Just adding a "northern" plains and a "southern plains" to the equation would clear up a bunch of the controversy in the middle part of the country.

IMO, a lot of the argument on this thread about DC and Miami is because of their unique historical background combined with the migration patterns throughout the last several decades.

DC for instance would have been a "southern" border town if it wasn't built for the expressed purpose of being the seat of the federal government. Therefore from it's beginning it has had more northern influence than it otherwise might have. At the same time it moved along socially in some ways in a similar fashion as did the southern states surrounding it regarding desegregation and the like.

Miami was kind of a rich northeasterner's playground early on and that provided more northern influence than other parts of Florida that had been there for many decades prior to Miami's development. Obviously, there was a strong southern influence early on among the year round residents and a lot of influence from the state of Florida dictating policy for south Florida.

In both instances a lot of the growth particularly in the last 50 years has come from the north and the midwest which influences the culture.
 
Old 01-14-2019, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Some of you do.

My wife's family is originally from Miami. They don't claim to be anything but southern. Native and foreign born celebrities are saying they're form the south. I was just watching a show about the kids of former Cartel Crew on VH1, from Cuba, Colombia telling you that "this is the south."

By your logic, NYC isn't Northeastern because there so many foreign born citizens.
Saying you are in the South is different than identifying as a "Southerner".
Most Miamians don't consider themselves to be "culturally" southern save for the African American community for the most part.
Miami is a city that was founded and built by northerners & mid westerners from New York & Ohio.
I have lived in Miami for more than 4 decades and people who identify themselves as Southerners in Miami are the outliers and not the norm.
Why are people so intent on making Miami a southern city when it never really was in the first place?
Hell I've had people joke & say that Miami isn't even really a "American" city !
 
Old 01-15-2019, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Really now?
I'm from Miami and we don't consider ourselves to be "Southerners".
The people who most identify with being southern in Miami are African Americans for the most part since many migrated to the city from other places in the south.
Miami is also well over 50% foreign born so how can you say that Miamians consider themselves to be "Southern"?



I'm foreign born and I consider myself southern. Granted, I came to the US at age 2 so this is the only country I know living in. Regardless...



Too many people think "southern" equals "redneck." It doesn't. Yet again, we have plenty of rednecks in Miami too, doncha think we don't, playa lol.



Maybe Miamians who don't really leave Miami much (and if they do its to go to maybe NYC or another country) don't connect with the South, but lots of Miamians got connections in upstate Florida and other parts of the South. And it doesn't matter if you're foreign born. I got a cousin born in Cuba came to Florida at age 13. Has lived in far northern FL most his life at this point and he's got a COUNTRY ass accent. Granted thats not Miami but it shows... Miami doesn't "seem southern" to some because its URBAN and people's idea of "southern" is based off of rural stereotypes. Dallas is urban too and its southern.



The thing with Miami is that its too "Latin" but assimilation will come. Its just more recent than in places like Texas where the Mexicans have been there so long they're fully assimilated.



Btw I get customers at work asking me "are you from the south?" quite a lot. And I'd say I sound pretty neutral but there's an accent they detect. I've heard its the way I say "shrimp" and "pillow" and any word with a long a drawn out "a." (draw, grandma, ball) I don't really have the "Miami latin" accent either btw. Like I said I think sound neutral but maybe a small twang?
 
Old 01-15-2019, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
There are Floridian natives there. Also it is undeniably in the southern US.

I've always considered the idea of kicking south Florida out of the south just because of its extreme diversity of people, would be akin to kicking NYC out of the Northeast for the same reason.

I wonder why the culture of the north is so much more acceptably malleable than the south.



I wonder this too. I've met Minnesotans of ALL races, ethnicities, religions who identify with the North/Midwest. I've met BLACK Minnesotans who have Minnesota accents, like with the "oooo" sound even.


Basically, the north (and west) are the only diverse regions. Anywhere that deviates from the very restrictive stereotypes of the South, and is located in the South, clearly isn't REALLY part of the South
 
Old 01-15-2019, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
This is a rare occasion where I don't agree with you. You're stating facts, but I don't agree that there's a cutoff time for immigrant influence.



Also, to me, this whole "if you're an immigrant, you're not southern" crap is just another way that native born (usually white) Americans get away with saying "if you're an immigrant, you're not REALLY American." BS. If you're an immigrant and you grow up in a certain region of this country, you have EVERY right to claim that regional AS WELL as national identity. Especially if you came as a child. You're still a part of that region. You don't live in a vacuum. And your life is still influenced by the geography, climate, culture, economics and politics of that region.



Who decides those rules anyway? The Kool Kids Klub?
 
Old 01-15-2019, 04:02 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,730 posts, read 6,137,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Also, to me, this whole "if you're an immigrant, you're not southern" crap is just another way that native born (usually white) Americans get away with saying "if you're an immigrant, you're not REALLY American." BS. If you're an immigrant and you grow up in a certain region of this country, you have EVERY right to claim that regional AS WELL as national identity. Especially if you came as a child. You're still a part of that region. You don't live in a vacuum. And your life is still influenced by the geography, climate, culture, economics and politics of that region.



Who decides those rules anyway? The Kool Kids Klub?
I have yet to have someone explain to me how people migrating to the south from the north makes a place less southern, but the reverse isn't true in regards to places like NYC. Did NYC become more southern during the great migration?


People also won't admit, although that is obviously the case, that they have a strict definition of what the south can be. Any deviation from country and rural does not coincide with the sterotypical view of the south.

That's why you have so many people performing all types of mental acrobatics to justify how their city can't be southern because they have fancy sandwich shops, don't act southern.
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