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Old 01-17-2019, 02:14 PM
 
1,508 posts, read 525,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
On the notion of DC being Southern, it really depends on what you are looking at. It was undoubtedly at its most Southern in the antebellum period. The popular notion of the South and DC has diverged quite a bit since then to the point they are barely recognizable as anything beyond distantly related. Geographically remains its strongest case, but then I think Delaware even gets a geographic nod for being Southern according to the Census, so yeah. But to each their own.

As far as Maryland, Iím unsure itís been Southern since Lincoln encircled Baltimore with cannons. Being on the wrong side of the Baptist line and not doing bbq for ship doesnít help. But if it makes you feel better to call it Southern, go ahead. The rest of the country will not.
Southern Louisiana is heavily Catholic, so it's not Southern? Oh, and they prefer seafood to BBQ.

 
Old 01-17-2019, 02:17 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,746 posts, read 6,149,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Southern Louisiana is heavily Catholic, so it's not Southern? Oh, and they prefer seafood to BBQ.
They'll come up with anything to convince themselves that Maryland and DC aren't southern. It's just something that they just have to live with.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:18 PM
 
902 posts, read 767,038 times
Reputation: 1200
The catholic argument is weird.
Everyone can agree that Maryland was Southern historically. Know what else Maryland was? Catholic. The state is literally named after the Virgin Mary.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 08:50 PM
 
Location: SF, CA
1,521 posts, read 683,494 times
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Default no, Maryland is not southern

A long time has passed since I lived in Maryland, but a much longer time has passed since it made sense to describe Maryland as a southern state. Maybe it was southern in 1870, but it's been moving north (sociologically) ever since.

Being a small state hosting a big city, Maryland is much more urban (87%) than the states to its south (except Florida). And Maryland became a majority-urban state soon after 1900, long before any southern state did.

White-ethnic communities are a notable feature of Baltimore; the city has Little Italy, Little Poland, Greektown, etc. Neighborhoods like these are attributes of Northeastern industrial cities; they were created by European immigrants who found work in Maryland factories, shipyards, docks and railroads.

Maryland's population is 4% Jewish, the same as Massachusetts; most Southern states (except Florida) are 1% or less.

Nearly 12% of Maryland workers are represented by unions; unionization in Southern states is half that percentage, or less.

But it's probably in politics that the difference between Maryland and the South is most obvious.
Maryland was the third-bluest state in the 2016 presidential election, a third of a percentage point bluer than even Massachusetts. Maryland passed marriage-equality in 2012, repealed capital punishment in 2013, and legalized medical marijuana in 2014. What southern legislature would pass these kinds of bills? And what southern state would've elected Barbara Mikulski to the US Senate?
 
Old 01-17-2019, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,857 posts, read 2,989,000 times
Reputation: 3399
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW4me View Post
A long time has passed since I lived in Maryland, but a much longer time has passed since it made sense to describe Maryland as a southern state. Maybe it was southern in 1870, but it's been moving north (sociologically) ever since.

Being a small state hosting a big city, Maryland is much more urban (87%) than the states to its south (except Florida). And Maryland became a majority-urban state soon after 1900, long before any southern state did.

White-ethnic communities are a notable feature of Baltimore; the city has Little Italy, Little Poland, Greektown, etc. Neighborhoods like these are attributes of Northeastern industrial cities; they were created by European immigrants who found work in Maryland factories, shipyards, docks and railroads.

Maryland's population is 4% Jewish, the same as Massachusetts; most Southern states (except Florida) are 1% or less.

Nearly 12% of Maryland workers are represented by unions; unionization in Southern states is half that percentage, or less.

But it's probably in politics that the difference between Maryland and the South is most obvious.
Maryland was the third-bluest state in the 2016 presidential election, a third of a percentage point bluer than even Massachusetts.
Maryland passed marriage-equality in 2012, repealed capital punishment in 2013, and legalized medical marijuana in 2014. What southern legislature would pass these kinds of bills? And what southern state would've elected Barbara Mikulski to the US Senate?
Pretty much this. I believe President Trump swept the southern states, and yea most of the midwest.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 09:14 PM
 
800 posts, read 291,589 times
Reputation: 797
Well the Baptist thing was a throwaway line, but certainly it’s true that Baptist congregations are heavily skewed towards the South. As I mentioned earlier, the best way to map the South is to map many of its quirks and features into a composite. Certainly slavery and the Mason-Dixon Line have some weight. But so does the Baptist line (or Bible Belt if you prefer), the Sweet tea line, the kudzu line, the cotton line, the pin/pen merger, plot the birth states of 20th century Opry members (sorry New Zealand), etc. Put it altogether and you’ll have a great idea of where the South is. It’s fine if you think Maryland or Indiana or wherever is in the South. It’s a big world and opinions are yours alone. But it’s kind of limiting if you think slavery is the defining Southern trait.
 
Old 01-18-2019, 07:01 AM
 
902 posts, read 767,038 times
Reputation: 1200
The urban/rural ratio in Maryland is certainly atypical. But how urban people vote there is not.
 
Old 01-18-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,739,224 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW4me View Post
A long time has passed since I lived in Maryland, but a much longer time has passed since it made sense to describe Maryland as a southern state. Maybe it was southern in 1870, but it's been moving north (sociologically) ever since.

Being a small state hosting a big city, Maryland is much more urban (87%) than the states to its south (except Florida). And Maryland became a majority-urban state soon after 1900, long before any southern state did.

White-ethnic communities are a notable feature of Baltimore; the city has Little Italy, Little Poland, Greektown, etc. Neighborhoods like these are attributes of Northeastern industrial cities; they were created by European immigrants who found work in Maryland factories, shipyards, docks and railroads.

Maryland's population is 4% Jewish, the same as Massachusetts; most Southern states (except Florida) are 1% or less.

Nearly 12% of Maryland workers are represented by unions; unionization in Southern states is half that percentage, or less.

But it's probably in politics that the difference between Maryland and the South is most obvious.
Maryland was the third-bluest state in the 2016 presidential election, a third of a percentage point bluer than even Massachusetts. Maryland passed marriage-equality in 2012, repealed capital punishment in 2013, and legalized medical marijuana in 2014. What southern legislature would pass these kinds of bills? And what southern state would've elected Barbara Mikulski to the US Senate?
*applause*
 
Old 01-18-2019, 08:42 AM
 
6,972 posts, read 14,102,736 times
Reputation: 4553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker View Post
Pretty much this. I believe President Trump swept the southern states, and yea most of the midwest.
He also won VA thanks to NoVa, which is in the DMV area, which includes DC, which means DC is not southern.
 
Old 01-18-2019, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,857 posts, read 2,989,000 times
Reputation: 3399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
He also won VA thanks to NoVa, which is in the DMV area, which includes DC, which means DC is not southern.
Yeah to me Nova is not southern.
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