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I'm not familiar with Cincinnati, only been to the Kentucky suburbs (to visit the Creation Museum and Noah's Ark replica so you know where I am politically), but Columbus is probably the largest metro area without any kind of mass transit system. (not sure if the Las Vegas Monorail or the Disney monorail in Orlando count though). But I've read Columbus is the largest city with neither a mass transit system nor passenger rail connections and Las Vegas does have Amtrak and Phoenix does have a light rail despite no Amtrak. Columbus is also a very spread out city that resembles the Sunbelt.
I don't think the newer or smaller cities are ideal for having a streetcar network. New Orleans is the perfect sized city for a streetcar network and it has the most well developed one in the nation though there is no light rail. I don't think New Orleans would be large enough to have a light rail. I guess a commuter rail line across Lake Pontchartrain might be a good idea but the construction would be too expensive.
Baton Rouge is also very anti public transit but there are benefits to that like keeping the crime concentrated inside certain city neighborhoods. As of now there is no public transportation of any kind linking Baton Rouge with the suburban parishes. This makes it impossible to live in the suburbs or in many areas without a car and this serves as a way of keeping the most undesirable people out of your neighborhood.
Focusing just on Rail is sort of silly. In Pittsburgh rail ridership is 11% of ridership, in Buffalo it’s 17% is KC is 15% in Cincinnati it’s like 5%.
Cleveland has about 35% higher rail ridership than Pittsburgh but Pittsburgh’s overall ridership is 90% higher
Focusing just on Rail is sort of silly. In Pittsburgh rail ridership is 11% of ridership, in Buffalo it’s 17% is KC is 15% in Cincinnati it’s like 5%.
Cleveland has about 35% higher rail ridership than Pittsburgh but Pittsburgh’s overall ridership is 90% higher
I was actually just discussing Cleveland and Pittsburgh mass transit on another thread, their rail is much closer than you said. Cleveland's published count is about 7% higher through 3rd qtr 2018 (5.9 million Cle vs 5.5 million Pgh). However-- Pittsburgh's T does not count the free riders in the downtown - north side free fare zone, and that is easily 2 million riders a year. but there is just no way to count them since there is no $ transaction.
I'm a white person who has ridden plenty of buses in many different places. But you're right, we're in the minority. The reluctance of many white people to use a transit bus is more a function of class than race, IMO. Most middle-class people don't want to hang around with lower-class people; and in most cities, the majority of bus ridership is lower class. The race of the riders vs. non-riders correlates with the respective classes, but I don't think that the difference is explained solely by race. Put it this way: if most bus riders were upper-class black people, I would bet that more middle-class white people would be willing to give it a try.
In New Orleans, many African Americans ride the street car lines, especially during school commuting hours. I'm perplexed what makes street cars different than buses, unless it's the neighborhoods served.
I'm not familiar with Cincinnati, only been to the Kentucky suburbs (to visit the Creation Museum and Noah's Ark replica so you know where I am politically), but Columbus is probably the largest metro area without any kind of mass transit system. (not sure if the Las Vegas Monorail or the Disney monorail in Orlando count though). But I've read Columbus is the largest city with neither a mass transit system nor passenger rail connections and Las Vegas does have Amtrak and Phoenix does have a light rail despite no Amtrak. Columbus is also a very spread out city that resembles the Sunbelt.
I don't think the newer or smaller cities are ideal for having a streetcar network. New Orleans is the perfect sized city for a streetcar network and it has the most well developed one in the nation though there is no light rail. I don't think New Orleans would be large enough to have a light rail. I guess a commuter rail line across Lake Pontchartrain might be a good idea but the construction would be too expensive.
Baton Rouge is also very anti public transit but there are benefits to that like keeping the crime concentrated inside certain city neighborhoods. As of now there is no public transportation of any kind linking Baton Rouge with the suburban parishes. This makes it impossible to live in the suburbs or in many areas without a car and this serves as a way of keeping the most undesirable people out of your neighborhood.
Orlando has SunRail now which is a 49 mile long commuter rail system through 4 central Florida counties.
As for Baton Rouge, you really think common criminals ride mass transit?
As for Baton Rouge, you really think common criminals ride mass transit?
You think they don't?
Other than in the largest of cities, most public-transit systems in the U.S. serve a predominantly lower-income clientele. And most common criminals are lower-income. So it stands to reason that common criminals would indeed ride mass transit.
To be sure, most lower-income individuals are not common criminals. And most bus riders are not common criminals. But you'd be naive to think that common criminals do not make use of public transportation.
Other than in the largest of cities, most public-transit systems in the U.S. serve a predominantly lower-income clientele. And most common criminals are lower-income. So it stands to reason that common criminals would indeed ride mass transit.
To be sure, most lower-income individuals are not common criminals. And most bus riders are not common criminals. But you'd be naive to think that common criminals do not make use of public transportation.
They definitely do. But to take a stance against public transit because of potential criminal element riding the bus is extremely flawed logic. The vast majority of bus riders rely on the (often underfunded and subpar) bus systems for all of life's activities including work, school, grocery shopping, etc.
Other than in the largest of cities, most public-transit systems in the U.S. serve a predominantly lower-income clientele. And most common criminals are lower-income. So it stands to reason that common criminals would indeed ride mass transit.
To be sure, most lower-income individuals are not common criminals. And most bus riders are not common criminals. But you'd be naive to think that common criminals do not make use of public transportation.
I'd like to see evidence of that because I think that argument is a thinly veiled excuse for racism and keeping a certain color of people out of certain areas instead.
They definitely do. But to take a stance against public transit because of potential criminal element riding the bus is extremely flawed logic. The vast majority of bus riders rely on the (often underfunded and subpar) bus systems for all of life's activities including work, school, grocery shopping, etc.
I agree with you. But this is the perception (and, to some extent, the reality) that we who are proponents of public transportation have to contend with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz
I'd like to see evidence of that because I think that argument is a thinly veiled excuse for racism and keeping a certain color of people out of certain areas instead.
I'm not aware of any factual studies that have looked at this. But there is tons and tons of anecdotal evidence out there. To take just one example:
The article is a follow-up to an incident last summer in which a group of juveniles from Baltimore City went to the White Marsh Mall in Baltimore County, allegedly via bus, and caused trouble. The article talks about a proposal (since withdrawn) to curtail bus service between the city and the mall, and makes note of another mall that saw crime drop when the main transit access from there to the city was temporarily closed.
As a proponent of public transportation, it gives me no pleasure to be talking about this. But I also can't fault law-abiding people from not wanting to make it easy for criminals or other trouble-makers to gain access to their neighborhoods and shopping centers.
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