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Yeah, the “Upstate” definition is tricky. I personally say out of the Lower Hudson Valley, which is basically the NYC metro area portion of the state pre 2013. Meaning, north of the Rockland and Putnam County lines. However, there is a lot of give and take in regards to this.
Yup. I grew up in NJ about fifteen minutes from the Rockland border, and Suffern was "upstate".
Honestly, with the exception of Texans and maybe Californians, I don’t think city-dwellers care that much about the state as a whole. e.g. Chicagoans don’t have an Illinois identity.
I was in Chicago in 2003 for my first and only visit (for a college visit to Notre Dame and a Cubs game at Wrigley...short trip), and I vividly recall seeing on the news a secessionist movement from southern IL that was pushing hard to make southern Illinois the 51st state in the union. I'm sure support was ultimately limited from a statistical standpoint, but it was significant enough to make the Chicago newscast. These days, with occasional such rumblings in upstate NY from mostly conservative politicians/random citizens (including a Republican pol from Batavia within the past few weeks; Batavia being a town about halfway between Buffalo and Rochester--not far at all from where I live), I'm always reminded of that experience (which surprised me at the time, as a naive HS senior). Culture clash is very real...precedes the obvious age of polarization we have today
Do they feel they are more associated with New York state or New Jersey?
Just to address this from the other end of the state...I would think that the most likely answers from NYCers would be: Long Island, then NJ, then Westchester County, then anywhere else in state in terms of 'places most identified with'. Could be wrong (might be NJ above LI for all I know) but that would be my guess of ordering
I think there is a connection between NYC and the rest of the state via the SUNY attendees and even the many of the private colleges throughout the state. Many have quite a few students from NYC and even at the community college level.
That's true too. NJ has a smaller and less diverse state college system, so many people who attend SUNY schools are from NJ.
Most NJ students would feel more at home SUNY colleges than the various Pennsylvania state colleges,with tend to be more rural and less suburban in culture.
I was in Chicago in 2003 for my first and only visit (for a college visit to Notre Dame and a Cubs game at Wrigley...short trip), and I vividly recall seeing on the news a secessionist movement from southern IL that was pushing hard to make southern Illinois the 51st state in the union. I'm sure support was ultimately limited from a statistical standpoint, but it was significant enough to make the Chicago newscast. These days, with occasional such rumblings in upstate NY from mostly conservative politicians/random citizens (including a Republican pol from Batavia within the past few weeks; Batavia being a town about halfway between Buffalo and Rochester--not far at all from where I live), I'm always reminded of that experience (which surprised me at the time, as a naive HS senior). Culture clash is very real...precedes the obvious age of polarization we have today
Reminiscent of back in the 70s when residents of several counties in the western part of IL (quick, name one city in Western IL, betcha can't!) launched a secessionist movement to create a new state called "Forgotonia". Google it, interesting story!
The dichotomy between Upstate and Downstate is a generational thing.
Millennials are far more traveled than their boomer parents, who were more domesticated. Social media, Facebook especially really made the world smaller, so those of us who made friends at SUNY schools are much better connected, and often take trips downstate to see college friends, attend weddings, weekends, concerts, etc.
Young adults love NYC, especially those of us from Upstate. Lots of us leave Upstate for it cause we understand it's importance and draw. Our parents think driving three hours to Buffalo is a big deal. Lol.
Even Gen X'ers are pretty well-traveled. My Godmother who's a Ny'er always leaves the city every few months and she's 42 but still travels like a 20 something. Heck Gen Xers were the first wave of young adults moving to NYC in the 90s right when Guliani was cleaning up the city hence why Park Slope is the older and more established genterfied Broolyn neighborhood in contrast to Bed-Stuy.
Honestly, with the exception of Texans and maybe Californians, I don’t think city-dwellers care that much about the state as a whole. e.g. Chicagoans don’t have an Illinois identity.
People here DEFINITELY identify as being Minnesotans more than Minneapolitans or St. Paulites. I am pretty sure Atlanta folks as identify strongly with Georgia, Detroiters with Michigan, St. Louians with Missouri, Denverites with Colorado, Portlanders definitely with Oregon. I think the majority of city dwellers still heavily identify with their state, as well. Unless you're the most provincial person ever, you probably leave the city to visit family or friends and attractions in other parts of the state.
I get what you mean with Chicago, as well, but I have a coworker from Chicago who moved out to Minnesota in the mid-'80s and she refers to herself mostly as being "from Illinois." When she goes back home for a weekend she refers to it as "going down to Illinois." Granted, she grew up in inner city Chicago in the '60s but last lived in Elgin in the '80s and that may not be IN Chicago but its close enough that if someone truly didn't associate much with the state and just the city, they'd say "Chicago" not "Illinois." Even when I go back to visit family in Florida, I don't just say "Miami." Because Miami is not the only place in the state I have family so I'm not from such a provincial upbringing that one corner of the state is all I know. My mom's maternal side of the family, none of them live in Miami, they live anywhere from Naples up to Live Oak. Most Miamians still have ties to the rest of Florida, at least in my family we do, especially Orlando, Naples and Tampa. Plus the keys.
I find it crazy if not many New Yorkers have ties to Albany, Buffalo or Syracuse. I know many have ties with Jersey but come on, not one aunt Linda moved up to Schenectady 30 years ago and no one visits her upstate every other summer? smh.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zamoo
The dichotomy between Upstate and Downstate is a generational thing.
Millennials are far more traveled than their boomer parents, who were more domesticated. Social media, Facebook especially really made the world smaller, so those of us who made friends at SUNY schools are much better connected, and often take trips downstate to see college friends, attend weddings, weekends, concerts, etc.
Young adults love NYC, especially those of us from Upstate. Lots of us leave Upstate for it cause we understand it's importance and draw. Our parents think driving three hours to Buffalo is a big deal. Lol.
You're not wrong, but your approach is incorrect. It is NOT a generational thing at all. It's a culture and class thing.
You speak too much in absolutes. Yes, most of the people traveling to NYC are younger, however, certainly not everybody young loves NYC. If you visited where I am from, I could prove it. There exists just as much indifference or bitterness toward NYC in the young adult crowd.
Likewise, not all "Boomers" (how come y'all have forgotten the Gen Xrs?) are poorly traveled either. My father, now nearing 60, had gone out to California, from western NY, by car by the time he was 20.
When I grew up in NYS (Upstate), it was almost like NYC was another state from us. There was no felt connection w/ it. Upstate was perceived (in hindsight now) as the "woods." Now, in some parts of upstate, many NYC people live there or 2nd homes there so more intermingling and the world is smaller now w/ technology than the 70's. Central NY is very different from Upstate even. They have different "accents." I only lived there a short time and they talked different than upstaters. Funny how much difference in that state.
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