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Old 09-15-2019, 02:34 PM
Status: "Fall is in the Air!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,440 posts, read 103,614,168 times
Reputation: 33415

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Denver, some routes.
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
5,321 posts, read 2,599,124 times
Reputation: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
I said that overnight service is overrated, not late night. Very few lower income, transit dependent need to ride between 0130 and 0430. They do, but not in any large numbers. Likely over 99% of riders travel outside those times. It would be time better spent on maintenance of rail systems. Full disclosure I do ride a regular service within those times on a regular basis.
The fact that the trains here run 24/7 on weekends but not weeknights should clue you in on who was clamoring for all-night subway service.

I argued that the money spent on running the trains all night on the weekends would have been better spent adding or restoring all-night bus service to the parts of the city that lacked it in this column:

Why the Rush to Revive 24-Hour SEPTA Subway Service? | Philadelphia Magazine (2014)

SEPTA ran the numbers and got back to me in this one:

MAP: This Is What Philly Would Look Like With Full 24-Hour SEPTA Service | Philadelphia Magazine (2014)
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,980 posts, read 3,709,398 times
Reputation: 2195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
The fact that the trains here run 24/7 on weekends but not weeknights should clue you in on who was clamoring for all-night subway service.

I argued that the money spent on running the trains all night on the weekends would have been better spent adding or restoring all-night bus service to the parts of the city that lacked it in this column:

Why the Rush to Revive 24-Hour SEPTA Subway Service? | Philadelphia Magazine (2014)

SEPTA ran the numbers and got back to me in this one:

MAP: This Is What Philly Would Look Like With Full 24-Hour SEPTA Service | Philadelphia Magazine (2014)
You and I are on the same page, but after reading your articles, I may have to give it more thought. If riders want train service and actually ride it, then it makes sense to provide that service. But I do think that desire is diminishing even since you published those articles and it's because of ride share. At least here in LA.

And speaking of LA, my experience is that night owl buses are rolling shelters. The times that I've ridden them I'd estimate that three quarters of the riders just rode around all night and slept. It's very sad, especially the kids. I don't know what to do about that situation, but I don't think that it's the job of transit to shelter the homeless and it negatively impacts ridership. I guess my point is that transit needs to do their best to provide a really good service for their riders of all incomes, and when they try to better serve only the poorest of riders they fail at that mission.
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:41 AM
 
11,220 posts, read 22,589,602 times
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Chicago's two busiest rail lines run 24 hours a day. The Red Line which runs from the north side to the south side, and the Blue Line which runs from the northwest side to the west side.

There are also 18 bus routes which run 24 hours a day, 6 of those routes converge downtown and have coordinated frequency with one another to assist in transfers.

Of the other rail lines they really only shut down for around 2-3 hours per day.

They mostly stop running around 1:30am to 2:30am and start up again between 3:30am to 4:30am.
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Old 09-16-2019, 10:45 AM
 
3,503 posts, read 1,695,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Chicago's two busiest rail lines run 24 hours a day. The Red Line which runs from the north side to the south side, and the Blue Line which runs from the northwest side to the west side.

There are also 18 bus routes which run 24 hours a day, 6 of those routes converge downtown and have coordinated frequency with one another to assist in transfers.

Of the other rail lines they really only shut down for around 2-3 hours per day.

They mostly stop running around 1:30am to 2:30am and start up again between 3:30am to 4:30am.
I might add to. That many bars can be open till 4:00am in Chicago. So some lines restarting still help these who close them bars and head home.
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
5,321 posts, read 2,599,124 times
Reputation: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
You and I are on the same page, but after reading your articles, I may have to give it more thought. If riders want train service and actually ride it, then it makes sense to provide that service. But I do think that desire is diminishing even since you published those articles and it's because of ride share. At least here in LA.

And speaking of LA, my experience is that night owl buses are rolling shelters. The times that I've ridden them I'd estimate that three quarters of the riders just rode around all night and slept. It's very sad, especially the kids. I don't know what to do about that situation, but I don't think that it's the job of transit to shelter the homeless and it negatively impacts ridership. I guess my point is that transit needs to do their best to provide a really good service for their riders of all incomes, and when they try to better serve only the poorest of riders they fail at that mission.
Absolutely.

Though the "transit as a free service" model is about to be tested in my hometown:

Kansas City Considers Doing Away With Transit Fares Citywide | Next City

The downtown streetcar on Main Street is already free and wildly popular; it's paid for by special sales and property taxes levied in a district that extends about 1/2 mile on either side of its route, and it's being extended southward using the same financing mechanism over a slightly larger territory extending as far west as the state line and as far east as Troost Avenue (I think in the latter case).

I think that both City Hall and the Kansas City Area Transportation Authority believe that doing this for the entire bus system will help fill buses that run less than full even at peak commute time. (Given that fares already cover only about 8 percent of what it costs the KCATA to run the buses, this might actually be a smart move. But as you point out, it may depend on who rides the buses once they're free.)
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:56 PM
 
223 posts, read 173,652 times
Reputation: 354
Cleveland's Healthline BRT is 24-7 and most of the main street bus routes are also 24-7 (Detroit/Lorain/St. Clair/Superior/Kinsman etc.). The Metrohealth line (51), which is also considered BRT, is also essentially 24-7 with buses leaving the Pearl-Denison transit center at least hourly, I believe.

The Red Line heavy rail isn't quite 24-7 but pretty close with the first train leaving the airport at 3:50 am and last train returning at 1:30 am.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:24 PM
 
1,802 posts, read 2,193,093 times
Reputation: 1794
Detroit has a travesty of a public transportation system, but it has TWELVE 24-hour bus routes.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:27 PM
 
2,290 posts, read 1,534,240 times
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That's pretty good for Clevland and Detroit. but they don't have very big ridership so who pays for it? is the ticket price high or is it more heavily tax subsidized?
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:33 PM
 
9,867 posts, read 7,429,940 times
Reputation: 10025
Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
Detroit has a travesty of a public transportation system, but it has TWELVE 24-hour bus routes.
This is why I don't understand the underlying premise behind this thread. 24-hour service has nothing really to do with transit quality. Like 2% of ridership is interested in a 3 AM bus ride.

Tokyo has no 24-hour service, while Detroit apparently has a number of routes.
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