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View Poll Results: Are the Western states in their entirety that are developing too fast?
Yes there's many states developing too fast and there's not enough undisturbed places 28 36.84%
Most portions of the West developing at about the right, sensible pace 23 30.26%
There's many portions of the West that could be developing faster 25 32.89%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-19-2019, 10:55 PM
 
278 posts, read 101,035 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
Yes, completely.
I guess Chicago is east then.
Since it's as close to the east coast as Denver is to the west coast.
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:04 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,189 posts, read 2,406,885 times
Reputation: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago_Person View Post
I guess Chicago is east then.
Since it's as close to the east coast as Denver is to the west coast.
To us westerners Chicago is an eastern city.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:43 PM
 
220 posts, read 93,110 times
Reputation: 199
This pro-sprawl and pro-overpopulation thread makes it sound like nuclear war'd be a good thing.
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:03 PM
 
4,807 posts, read 2,926,519 times
Reputation: 4320
Growth can be infill.

The premise doesn't have to be net additional people globally. To me it's about where people are, not how many.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:55 PM
509
 
3,297 posts, read 4,250,109 times
Reputation: 4010
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
The west feels overcrowded because there are so few cities to select from, and everyone is trying to move into them, instead there needs to be more small cities/large towns that can siphon off of some of that demand.

For instance lets compare Washington state (densest western state behind CA) with New England, they are both similarly sized but have very different population densities.

Area | Land Area | Population | density
Washington | 66,544 sq mi | 7,535,591 | 103/sq mi
New England | 62,688.4 sq mi | 14,810,001 | 210/sq mi

List of Metro Areas >100k
1. Boston: 4,875,390
1. Seattle: 3,939,363
2. Providence: 1,621,337
3. Hartford: 1,206,300
4. Worcester: 947,866
5. Bridgeport: 943,823
6. New Haven: 857,620
7. Springfield: 631,761
2. Spokane: 573,493
8. Portland: 535,420
9. Manchester: 415,247
3. Kennewick: 296,224
4. Olympia: 286,419
5. Bremerton: 269,805
10. Norwich: 266,784
6. Yakima: 251,446
7. Bellingham: 225,685
11. Burlington: 221,083
12. Barnstable: 213,413
13. Bangor: 151,096
8. Mt. Vernon: 128,206
14. Pittsfield: 126,348
9. Wenatchee: 119,943
10. Longview: 108,987
15. Lewiston: 107,679

Washington's smaller towns could easily support twice the population, but instead everyone is being crammed into the Seattle area.
Not Wenatchee. The County is 89% public land. The remaining private land is worth more as orchard than subdivision OR is so steep that road access is not possible.

Likewise, Yakima is the second most important agricultural county in Washington state. Like Wenatchee, it is a push on the cost of land for farming versus subdivision.

BUT.....is the West overpopulated?? DEFINITELY YES.

I started working as a Forester in 1970. Lived and worked in almost all the western states. After I retired in 2007 I took long trips to those timber sales, recreation area plans, and other projects I worked on in my career.

I was totally shocked at the population growth in those areas. I actually got lost at Lake Mead National Recreation Area....I did not realize that Las Vegas has grown ALL the WAY OUT to the NRA!!! Worse yet, was the growth in the private lands in the National Forests and BLM managed lands.

Yes, the West is overpopulated....it is the reason we have all these endangered species, wildland fires, and strain on water and electrical resources.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Denver
3,340 posts, read 2,766,368 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Not Wenatchee. The County is 89% public land. The remaining private land is worth more as orchard than subdivision OR is so steep that road access is not possible.

Likewise, Yakima is the second most important agricultural county in Washington state. Like Wenatchee, it is a push on the cost of land for farming versus subdivision.

BUT.....is the West overpopulated?? DEFINITELY YES.

I started working as a Forester in 1970. Lived and worked in almost all the western states. After I retired in 2007 I took long trips to those timber sales, recreation area plans, and other projects I worked on in my career.

I was totally shocked at the population growth in those areas. I actually got lost at Lake Mead National Recreation Area....I did not realize that Las Vegas has grown ALL the WAY OUT to the NRA!!! Worse yet, was the growth in the private lands in the National Forests and BLM managed lands.

Yes, the West is overpopulated....it is the reason we have all these endangered species, wildland fires, and strain on water and electrical resources.
Maybe we're not getting clear info just by looking at the population numbers since those shouldn't include second and third residences as part of demographic growth, even though that's housing construction? According to demographic data, places like Lake Mead growing would make sense since that's part of the Vegas area which is growing rapidly (although very densely as well), but is that same development happening in the rest of Nevada or in eastern CA or OR?
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:06 PM
509
 
3,297 posts, read 4,250,109 times
Reputation: 4010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Maybe we're not getting clear info just by looking at the population numbers since those shouldn't include second and third residences as part of demographic growth, even though that's housing construction? According to demographic data, places like Lake Mead growing would make sense since that's part of the Vegas area which is growing rapidly (although very densely as well), but is that same development happening in the rest of Nevada or in eastern CA or OR?
Yes, the big growth states for in the west are Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and Utah. Montana does not seem to growing as fast this cycle.

The former rural areas of California are "awash" in people. True story....I was putting up a private timber just over the hill from the Napa Valley in 1973. As I was leaving to work on the sale my boss told me to be sure to quit early, since there was no place to eat in the Napa Valley after 5:00pm!!

When I drove from Las Vegas to north Idaho in 1978 I saw TEN cars all day long on Highway 93. Today, it is thousands of cars on a state highway literally in the middle of Nevada.

Those are the states that I worked in during my career. I should really look up the population numbers for those states from 1970 to today.

Can't comment on Colorado, New Mexico, or Wyoming.
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Old 10-22-2019, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,189 posts, read 2,406,885 times
Reputation: 2845
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Not Wenatchee. The County is 89% public land. The remaining private land is worth more as orchard than subdivision OR is so steep that road access is not possible.

Likewise, Yakima is the second most important agricultural county in Washington state. Like Wenatchee, it is a push on the cost of land for farming versus subdivision.

BUT.....is the West overpopulated?? DEFINITELY YES.

I started working as a Forester in 1970. Lived and worked in almost all the western states. After I retired in 2007 I took long trips to those timber sales, recreation area plans, and other projects I worked on in my career.

I was totally shocked at the population growth in those areas. I actually got lost at Lake Mead National Recreation Area....I did not realize that Las Vegas has grown ALL the WAY OUT to the NRA!!! Worse yet, was the growth in the private lands in the National Forests and BLM managed lands.

Yes, the West is overpopulated....it is the reason we have all these endangered species, wildland fires, and strain on water and electrical resources.
first of all like I said WA is the most dense outside of CA, but I agree that that the farmland is very valuable in Wenatchee and Yakima, but still if they densify they could house quite a bit more people, on top of that there are plenty of other places that have room to expand such as the Tri-cities, Moses Lake, Bremerton, and Olympia. Also the fact there is no major city between Portland and Sacramento speaks a lot of how empty that part is, for instance Eugene could easily be a mid sized city on the scale of Spokane or Boise.

Now don't think that I want to see a sea of suburbia filling up the I-5 corridor, I just would like to see some sizable dense cities with competitive employment options that can siphon off some of the demand but still have plenty of rural/wild land in between.
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Old 10-22-2019, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Denver
3,340 posts, read 2,766,368 times
Reputation: 2438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Yes, the big growth states for in the west are Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and Utah. Montana does not seem to growing as fast this cycle.

The former rural areas of California are "awash" in people. True story....I was putting up a private timber just over the hill from the Napa Valley in 1973. As I was leaving to work on the sale my boss told me to be sure to quit early, since there was no place to eat in the Napa Valley after 5:00pm!!

When I drove from Las Vegas to north Idaho in 1978 I saw TEN cars all day long on Highway 93. Today, it is thousands of cars on a state highway literally in the middle of Nevada.

Those are the states that I worked in during my career. I should really look up the population numbers for those states from 1970 to today.

Can't comment on Colorado, New Mexico, or Wyoming.
Wow, yeah that is a pretty drastic change over a generation or 2. So the areas that are quiet now must have been simply devoid of almost all people a couple decades ago.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,793 posts, read 3,885,861 times
Reputation: 3897
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
To us westerners Chicago is an eastern city.
I love seeing the reactions of some people when I say "back East" and they say "where?" and I respond with "St Louis".

Like yes, you are in the eastern half of this country whether you like it or not. Not every place in this country is based on a Midwestern perspective in regards to location.

Other Western cities and the Plains states from Texas to North Dakota get an "over there" "up there" "down there" but east of those states get a "back East" from me as a general rule of thumb.
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