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Old 10-07-2019, 06:58 PM
Location: Carriagetown
2,234 posts, read 2,110,347 times
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Originally Posted by krosser100 View Post
I was recently in Toronto and I noticed how integrated all the races are....
I started a Boston vs Toronto thread in the Boston sub-forum a while back, and one of the Boston posters, who (I believe) grew up in Toronto, weighed in that Toronto may not really be a paradise of tolerance and equity, despite being quite diverse.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:03 PM
Status: "Fall is Here!" (set 14 days ago)
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,696 posts, read 103,866,812 times
Reputation: 33500
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Actually, this isnít true, as there are parts of those western metros that have a very notable black concentration. SE San Diego and parts of adjacent suburbs and in terms of the Seattle area, from Central/South Seattle going south and west into Tacoma is where much of that population is concentrated in that area. So, those are a couple of examples.
Portland is known to be a very racist city.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:25 PM
Location: Vancouver
12,972 posts, read 9,057,707 times
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Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
My sister lives in Vancouver. The dirt her house sits on is worth at least $3 million. She pays big property taxes. The owners get chased out by the unaffordable property taxes, sell to Chinese developers who scrape the house of the lot, build a new house, and sell it to rich Chinese people. Her neighborhood is now segregated with a few holdout white people. The tax on nonresident buyers slowed the appreciation rate down but Canadians largely can’t afford to live in Vancouver.
If my calculations are correct, she pays $7,680 CDN in property taxes.

Last edited by Natnasci; 10-07-2019 at 08:42 PM..
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Old Today, 03:39 AM
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
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The big Canadian cities where overwhelmingly European during the days when the US was doing racist stuff like segregation. Canada had racist policies back then too but it had little impact on any current segregation patterns because the people Canada was being racist towards back then were only a tiny part of the population of its biggest cities.

It's only in the 1970s that Canadian immigration laws were changed so that an immigrant's race/ethnicity wasn't taken into account when screening applicants, so that's when cities like Toronto started to become more diverse. The situation in Toronto in the 70s-90s when it transitioned from a predominantly white city to a diverse one was relatively different from how American cities looked in the 40s-60s when blacks started migrating to US cities en-masse. A lot of Toronto's housing projects were in more outlying areas for example, in Jane-Finch, Rexdale, West Hill and Lawrence Heights (although there were some downtown projects too), so a lot of the low income immigrants ended up scattered in the suburbs. After housing projects, the next most low income housing type would probably be the 60s-70s highrises, which were scattered across the suburbs.

As a result, low income immigrants were less likely to get concentrated in one area. Middle class immigrants mostly went to new or new-ish suburbs, since the core was relatively desirable and expensive, and the original European residents weren't really interested in leaving those core areas to free them up for middle class immigrants. The first concentrations of South Asian residents were in Rexdale, Malton and Malvern, and the first major concentration of Chinese immigrants (Chinatown is quite small) were in North Scarborough. That meant they were a bit more scattered about and spread out rather than concentrated in a small inner city enclave. Even blacks didn't really settle in the inner city in large enclaves, the closest would be the Oakwood-Vaughan/Eglinton West/Mt. Dennis/Weston area, which has older early-mid 20th century housing, but it's not that close to the core, and even then it was previously Italian and the Italians weren't leaving in big enough numbers for the blacks to become a majority.

The source of immigrants was also always pretty diverse, there were always several large sources of immigrants, which means that housing that would appeal to immigrants saw competition from many different groups at the same time and was less likely to be dominated by one group.

You also have relatively varied housing stock. In US cities, a lot of the most segregated neighbourhoods have older tenements, or rowhouses, or SFHs, but often it's just one kind of housing, so the income will be pretty uniform, so if the neighbourhood starts to decline, it'll be uniformly low income. Since a high percentage of the US' low income population is either Black or Hispanic, especially in metropolitan areas, that means you're more likely to get concentrations of low income Blacks or Hispanics. In Toronto, there's not as much of an oversupply of SFHs, so they're never going to be so cheap that you could have a truly low income SFH area, and the apartments and housing projects are mostly small clusters surrounded by middle class SFH housing. There actually are some apartment complexes and housing projects in NW Toronto that are 60-85% Black, but the larger neighbourhoods are more diverse.

The Black population is also relatively diverse. I'm not sure how much someone from Nigeria seems themselves as having in common with a Jamaican, and how much they would value living together, compared to the US where Blacks are more likely to see themselves as having a common culture. Blacks in Toronto come from a few different regions, the biggest is probably the Caribbean, mainly Jamaica, Trinidad and Guyana. Second is I think East Africa, mainly Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya. Third is West Africa, especially Nigeria, but also Ghana. Then Toronto also gets a decent number of American immigrants, and I'm sure a certain number of those, maybe 10%, are Black? Finally there's descendants from Loyalists but I think those are the smallest group. Some of these immigrants might pass through a different country before arriving in Canada too, like immigrate to the UK first, then Canada later, or to France.

And although 450,000 Blacks or so is significant, it's still a smaller percentage than most American cities, and a small enough percentage that it's possible for them not to form any major enclaves.

We've mostly been talking about Blacks here though. Although having a minority that is 7-8% of the population have basically no neighbourhoods that are more than about 30-40% of that minority group is not too segregated, there are other minorities in Toronto that are more segregated. Italians are a similar % of the overall population for example (8.3%), but they're about 60-70% of the population in Woodbridge, so I'd say that's pretty segregated. The Portuguese population (3.6%) is less than half the size of the Black population, but they make up about 40% of the population of Caledonia-Fairbank. Greater Toronto has a Tibetan population of only 6000, but 2000 of them live within a couple blocks of the intersection of King and Jameson in Parkdale. Koreans are quite segregated too, making up only 1.3% of the population, but in North York Centre it's around 15%. Jews are about 1% of the population but reach around 15% of the total in some neighbourhoods around Bathurst Street in Vaughan. Iranians as well, making up about 20% of the population around Yonge & Steeles despite being only 1.7% of the Metro population.

Toronto's Chinese population is only 10.5% of the total, but makes up around 75% of the population in Berczy Village in Markham, and in Milliken around Pacific Mall at the Scarborough-Markham border. One census tract reaches 90% Chinese, and the rest of the population is mostly of other Asian ethnicities. The American city with a Black minority that is the closest proportion to Toronto's Chinese population is Las Vegas, and it only tops out at around 65% around MLK Boulevard, so that means Toronto's Chinese population is more segregated than Las Vegas' Black population. American metro areas like Sacramento, Riverside-San Bernardino, San Antonio, Denver and Minneapolis also lack neighbourhoods that are over 70% black (or even over 50% in some cases).

Pittsburgh is more segregated, but it's an older city, and the Black population there dates to the 40s-60s when they were segregated, and the settlement patterns of today there mostly reflect the settlement patterns of that past. On the other hand, Sacramento and Las Vegas are much newer cities, and the Black population mostly moved there in the last few decades afaik.

So I think Toronto is less segregated because it lacks one homogeneous group that makes up a large percent of the population, and because it had very few visible minorities during the days of segregation. The biggest minority group according to Statistics Canada's classification is "South Asians" at 16.6%, but that's still a rather heterogeneous group. When people self-segregate, it's often tied to stuff like language and religion, and there are 3 religions that are very strong represented among South Asians in Toronto, Hinduism, Sikhism and Islam. There's probably some Buddhists too. For languages, there's also a ton of different languages, Tamil, Urdu, Punjabi, Gujarati, Bengali... And that's reflected in the fact that each of these South Asian ethnic groups live is rather different parts of Toronto. Pakistanis in Milton and northern Mississauga, except for the Ahmadi Muslim Pakistanis who live in Maple instead, Bangladeshis are mostly in South Scarborough, Sikhs in Brampton, Malton and Rexdale, Tamils in Ajax, SE Markham and NE Scarborough.
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Old Today, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by krosser100 View Post
I was recently in Toronto and I noticed how integrated all the races are, and it is no small feat, as it is certainly one of the most multicultural in the world. There is a balanced mix of Whites, Blacks, Asians, Middle Eastern people (I don't think too many Hispanics though)... and many seemingly live in the same neighborhoods throughout the region in places such as Scarborough, North York, Mississauga. I have also been to Montreal and Vancouver, they are not as racially diverse as Toronto but still pretty multicultural and integrated (I think Vancouver is a little more segregated than the others though).

This is in contrast to American cities, where people generally live in the same neighborhood as their race. There are some exceptions like parts of Oakland, parts of Queens NYC, but for sure Canada cities have US ones beat in "racial integration". In most American big cities you know if you stepped into the "Black" or "Hispanic" or "White" part of town. In places like Chicago and Atlanta and SF Bay Area, you don't even need to "step" into town, if you take the subway, you will often know the direction the train is heading based on the people you see on the train.

Factors? Besides the link between crime rates and minority groups in the US.
My guess, usually accurate or close to it, is that the black population in Canada is limited and mostly not as directly related to blacks out of slavery in the South as those in the US.
Next, other races are not racially segregated. Whites, Asians, and other non blacks integrate quite well with whites around the world. However, even where there are pockets of segregated Asian and other communities, those are more of a cultural/ethnic/religiuos difference than racial. Asians/whites/all non blacks, are considered just about the same when it comes to being racially equal. Agree or not, hair and body structure plus thought process are the main racial differences between blacks and everyone else, and are significant factors in the need to keep the two sides apart (and these are such a huge elephant in the room, often in fear of the coming uproar whenever the conversation turns to blacks vs. everyone else). If the black population in Canada or anywhere matched what it does in the US, racial segregation would look just about like it is in the US.
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