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Old 10-23-2019, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,345 posts, read 4,929,621 times
Reputation: 5801

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola View Post
As many others have pointed out, with most stereotypes there is factual basis for why they exist. I think the tougher question is why does making fun of these stereotypes seem more socially acceptable than others. SNL or can run a skit making fun of the plight of poor uneducated people in Appalachia using non poor, non Appalachian actors and nobody cares. There is viral outrage about SNL being classiest, culturally insensitive or punching down at a disadvantaged social group.

My pet theory is the "woke" left is primarily focuse their outrage on gender, sexuality, and race issues above class concerns. Poor whites still have white privilege would be the "woke" retort. And on the right, Fox News and co would rather focus their outeage on illegal immigration and liberal activism rather than than acknowledge structural class issues which could undermine their pro big business economic agenda.

I guess in theory, Appalachian Americans could form an advocacy group to call out negative sterotyping, but they would probably be dismissed/belittled by the cultural left and cynically used by the right.
It's mostly because the social mindset right now is one of anti-white. Over the last 30 years it has become more and more acceptable to put white people down.

Poor whites are the easiest targets, and in central and southern Appalachia, poor whites are extremely visible as they are far, far less hidden beneath old money (and the stereotyping that comes from their presence) like northern Appalachia is, and most of the rest of the nation as well.

In short, America actually acknowledges the poor of Appalachia, particularly the central portion (WV, KY, western VA). Sadly, this acknowledgment comes in the form of derision rather than empathy.

In terms of whites being made a mockery of (often by other whites), no matter where you go the upper classes always scoff at the trailer park, the isolated village, the farming communities, the homesteader, and sometimes even the apartment dweller.

The poorest section of Appalachia is the biggest most visible target, and since it is majority white, nobody cares to defend them. They'd rather moral grand-stand about how horrible our race is instead, while kissing every black ass they can find.

SNL is a show run by the sort of people who think Wisconsinites have a southern accent, Pennsylvania is basically Alabama, and the west coast is entirely California.
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Old 10-23-2019, 11:32 AM
Status: "My AR self identifies as a musket" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
3,619 posts, read 4,573,177 times
Reputation: 2247
Reality is... folks don't give a hoot what most of y'all think. The downside of that is.... indifference creeps in about many other things, especially the good things. Church, music, family, and allows insidious poison into our lives.

Church is what made us good, music is what bound us, hard work defined us, booze is what hurts us, and drugs is what kills us.

Churches are helping and having some success in east Tennessee.
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:06 PM
 
15,102 posts, read 8,114,010 times
Reputation: 27336
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Problems and causes vary by state, but the real reason stereotypes prevail is because most humans are stupid. The grand majority of our species are genetic failures, including many who hold an education.

Stereotyping is perpetuated both by outside ignorance, AND internal support. In both cases, idiots spurring on idiots.

The problems and causes are pretty much the same everywhere. Poor parenting. Lousy education. No 21st century job skills. No economic opportunity. "Old economy" jobs. The people with good parenting, strong education, 21st century job skills, and "new economy" jobs tend to cluster together. Tennessee has a cluster in Nashville. North Carolina has a cluster in Raleigh-Durham. Vermont has a cluster around Burlington. Most people who grow up in old economy places who get the education and 21st century job skills bail out to one of those clusters.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:54 PM
Status: "My AR self identifies as a musket" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
3,619 posts, read 4,573,177 times
Reputation: 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The problems and causes are pretty much the same everywhere. Poor parenting. Lousy education. No 21st century job skills. No economic opportunity. "Old economy" jobs. The people with good parenting, strong education, 21st century job skills, and "new economy" jobs tend to cluster together. Tennessee has a cluster in Nashville. North Carolina has a cluster in Raleigh-Durham. Vermont has a cluster around Burlington. Most people who grow up in old economy places who get the education and 21st century job skills bail out to one of those clusters.
Who's gonna grow your food?

Before our social outrage about everything, most of the folks I know just wanted to be left alone.

Enjoy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0sYnro_3Rc
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
25,150 posts, read 18,653,856 times
Reputation: 29640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Church is what made us good, music is what bound us, hard work defined us, booze is what hurts us, and drugs is what kills us.

Churches are helping and having some success in east Tennessee.
Really?

I work in Kingsport. It's probably the most religious decently sized city east of Knoxville. Churches, mostly conservative Baptist and Pentecostal flavors, are everywhere.

Crime is way higher than surrounding communities. Drug abuse and now homelessness are very visible problems. The city has no identity outside of Eastman, no growth, nor any real plans to get the city moving in a positive direction, yet the pews of the (mostly very conservative) churches are full every Sunday. While the whole area is religious, Kingsport's church atmosphere feels downright oppressive and stifling compared to even nearby Bristol and Johnson City. The fact of the matter is that many of the town residents seem to like the way things they are.

A Kingsport city school has been in partnership with a local church and the Freedom from Religion Foundation is challenging this. To me, the school system is blatantly out of line here.

https://wcyb.com/news/local/freedom-...ch-partnership

I was never religious growing up and had a really strong distaste for religion and religious people overall for many years. I was ostracized for my atheism.

For the most part, even though church attendance is high here, this part of the state has very high rates of negative metrics like drug abuse, crime rate, domestic problems, etc.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
25,150 posts, read 18,653,856 times
Reputation: 29640
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
It's mostly because the social mindset right now is one of anti-white. Over the last 30 years it has become more and more acceptable to put white people down.

Poor whites are the easiest targets, and in central and southern Appalachia, poor whites are extremely visible as they are far, far less hidden beneath old money (and the stereotyping that comes from their presence) like northern Appalachia is, and most of the rest of the nation as well.

In short, America actually acknowledges the poor of Appalachia, particularly the central portion (WV, KY, western VA). Sadly, this acknowledgment comes in the form of derision rather than empathy.

In terms of whites being made a mockery of (often by other whites), no matter where you go the upper classes always scoff at the trailer park, the isolated village, the farming communities, the homesteader, and sometimes even the apartment dweller.

The poorest section of Appalachia is the biggest most visible target, and since it is majority white, nobody cares to defend them. They'd rather moral grand-stand about how horrible our race is instead, while kissing every black ass they can find.

SNL is a show run by the sort of people who think Wisconsinites have a southern accent, Pennsylvania is basically Alabama, and the west coast is entirely California.
Absolutely.

It's still socially acceptable to make fun of central Appalachians. I'm from extreme northeast TN and live less than a mile from the Virginia line. I moved to Iowa and Indiana for work. You wouldn't believe the amount of jokes I heard cracked in Iowa, not exactly a point of high culture, about where I came from. A lot of people there seemed to think we didn't have power, internet, etc.

With that said, there's a grain of truth in those stereotypes. There are large swathes of southwest Virginia without broadband, cellular service, or municipal water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The problems and causes are pretty much the same everywhere. Poor parenting. Lousy education. No 21st century job skills. No economic opportunity. "Old economy" jobs. The people with good parenting, strong education, 21st century job skills, and "new economy" jobs tend to cluster together. Tennessee has a cluster in Nashville. North Carolina has a cluster in Raleigh-Durham. Vermont has a cluster around Burlington. Most people who grow up in old economy places who get the education and 21st century job skills bail out to one of those clusters.
For the most part, the legacy Appalachian coal, furniture, and tobacco industries have imploded. We have a small bit of manufacturing and the usual government, hospital, and handful of professional jobs that you can find anywhere. That's basically it for "good work." Beyond that, it's retail, food service, and a lot of poorly paid call centers and such.

Any local native with any agency about them leaves, at least for awhile. You really have to get skills elsewhere to get the professional jobs here that do pay decently. My team has two openings for systems analysts. We can't find qualified local applicants. The area isn't going to be attractive to a professional in Williamson County. We either hire junior level people and try training them up, or augment with contractors.
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Downtown Lynchburg, The Hill City
150 posts, read 77,163 times
Reputation: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRoadkill View Post
There still seems to be a lot of myths about the Appalachian Mountains and its residents that still prevail to this day.
Appalachians are poor, white, uneducated, drug dependent, backwards, …..
Obviously you cannot apply these stereotypes to a vast area covering over 400 counties and 25 million people... Just go to Asheville. Very progressive, highly educated, and lots of wealthy people live there. The city is also a huge tourism destination and a popular destination for millennials and retirees to live. They are putting up homes in the value of $300k - 500k range all over the city and most are very modern and eco-friendly (check out these homes to see just what I mean https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showp...&postcount=209).

Asheville has some of the highest numbers of local independent shops, breweries, and art galleries of any city on the east coast (maybe even the US). It also looks like every other person drives a Prius or Subaru Outback whenever I visit there lol. Buncombe County where Asheville is located has a lower poverty rate and higher educational attainment rate than the US average. Neighboring Henderson County has an educational attainment rate higher than the US average, a poverty rate lower than the US average, and a fairly high median household income as well.

Even Chattanooga seemed like a pretty vibrant and growing community with a huge focus on placemaking and creating great and sustainable in-town neighborhoods when I visited there two years ago. There are so many beautiful little villages and towns that have reinvented themselves through agritourism (wineries, breweries, extensive trails like the Virginia Creeper Trail in Abingdon/Damascus, and outdoor festivals) which is drawing in visitors and revenue as well as people now moving to these areas. University towns such as Boone and Blacksburg score highly on education and liveability metrics.

Last edited by dbcook1; 10-24-2019 at 01:19 PM..
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
25,150 posts, read 18,653,856 times
Reputation: 29640
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcook1 View Post
Obviously you cannot apply these stereotypes to a vast area covering over 400 counties and 25 million people... Just go to Asheville. Very progressive, highly educated, and lots of wealthy people live there. The city is also a huge tourism destination and a popular destination for millennials and retirees to live. They are putting up homes in the value of $300k - 500k range all over the city and most are very modern and eco-friendly (check out these homes to see just what I mean https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showp...&postcount=209).

Asheville has some of the highest numbers of local independent shops, breweries, and art galleries of any city on the east coast (maybe even the US). It also looks like every other person drives a Prius or Subaru Outback whenever I visit there lol. Buncombe County where Asheville is located has a lower poverty rate and higher educational attainment rate than the US average. Neighboring Henderson County has an educational attainment rate higher than the US average, a poverty rate lower than the US average, and a fairly high median household income as well.

Even Chattanooga seemed like a pretty vibrant and growing community with a huge focus on placemaking and creating great and sustainable in-town neighborhoods when I visited there two years ago. There are so many beautiful little villages and towns that have reinvented themselves through agritourism (wineries, breweries, extensive trails like the Virginia Creeper Trail in Abingdon/Damascus, and outdoor festivals) which is drawing in visitors and revenue as well as people now moving to these areas. University towns such as Boone and Blacksburg score highly on education and liveability metrics.
Asheville really needs to be tossed out.

Asheville has been a draw for out of area wealth and transplants for many decades. The Biltmore wasn't built by a local native. A lot of those Asheville businesses were started by people, many of whom had relatively few local ties, whose sole purpose was to piggyback off the tourist, nature, and beer/dining scene.
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Old 10-24-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Downtown Lynchburg, The Hill City
150 posts, read 77,163 times
Reputation: 359
Asheville is still technically in Appalachia geographically so you could argue that that Appalachian city found the right formula for success to bring people and money in by investing in tourism, the arts, and creating a vibrant place where people from all over the US would want to move to. But yeah, I can kind of see your point. I really think there is a lot of potential for Appalachia to capitalize on their natural outdoor amenities too as Boone, Abingdon, and Chattanooga has done to bring in tourists and then new residents who want the outdoor adventure life. Speaking of Chattanooga, it really stands out as a city that has reinvented itself into a professional tech, startup, and innovation hub in addition to being a popular outdoors adventure destination (https://www.businessinsider.com/rise...p-scene-2018-6). I mean in 2017 it was the fastest growing large city in Tennessee (https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...te-top/471907/) and it has the nations sixth fastest growing median household income and employment is growing at twice the national rate (https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...growth/479344/)

I have found both Knoxville and Chattanooga to be anything but what the OP generalized as being the characteristics of Appalachia. Here are some photos from some of my recent visits there:

Chattanooga: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2114791

Knoxville: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2053607

Don't get me wrong, I totally realize there are huge portions of Appalachia where its population is living in poverty and that drug use is pervasive. I am just trying to show that Appalachia is a very diverse and huge geographic place stretching across multiple states and not every place is what OP has stereotyped it to be.

Last edited by dbcook1; 10-24-2019 at 02:24 PM..
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