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It is with a heavy heart that I now realize that the economic outlook for accountants in my area is bleaker than I ever thought possible. Sure, it might have been nice for my two years on this forum to champion my hometown as a wonderful place in which to raise a family through my essays and photo tours, but that was before I started putting my "feelers" out for the limited accounting internships available in this area (two to be exact) and didn't make the cut for either slot due to intensive competition. It is with a heavy heart that I realize when I graduate in May 2009 I'll likely have to pack my bags and relocate to an area where people with college degrees have the potential for upward vertical mobility. I could stay in Scranton and commute daily to NJ or NY like thousands of others here in Northeastern Pennsylvania are now doing, but it is also my dream to someday adopt three neglected children into a home of love and warmth---two amenities I couldn't afford them if I'm commuting/working from 5 AM-8 PM five days per week.
Here are some of my criteria:
I would prefer to live in an area with a four-season climate. I know many of you were going to suggest areas like Atlanta, Phoenix, Raleigh, Austin, etc. to me, but I need an area that receives several healthy snow storms per season, summers with a few hot spells, colorful falls, and beautiful springs.
I'm an openly-gay male, but I'm very "straight-acting" in that most people have no idea about my sexual orientation unless I spell it out for them. I enjoy sports, work out regularly, and have neither a lisp nor limp wrists. Regardless though I'd still like to live in an area with enough social progression so that if my future partner and I are out on a date in a romantic restaurant on Valentine's Day we don't get a lot of whispers, stares, glares, etc., especially if we were to exchange some romantic gifts at our table.
I will be graduating in May 2009 with a B.S. in Accounting. Immediately afterwards I wish to enroll in the Becker course to prepare to take and successfully pass my CPA exam. I may also pursue my MBA with a concentration in accounting. I'd need to live in an area that has a respectable amount of employment opportunities in the public accounting field as well as a graduate school to further my studies.
I suppose I'm a borderline yuppie. Most of my friends are college students, and in the future I'll probably be associating mostly with fellow college-educated twenty-something professionals. I'd like to live in an area with a relatively high population of younger college-educated individuals, nightlife catering to this crowd, decent shopping options, etc.
I'd prefer to live in or very near to a downtown area. I'm open to living in a small, reasonably-priced 1-BR loft/condo for a while and then would like to live in a historic single-family home with character once the time arises to add children to my home. I'd be open to a rowhome, but I've always had a fond spot in my heart for Victorians. Sidewalks and the ability to walk to a grocery store, house of worship, park, restaurants, etc. would also be nearly essential.
Some cities that immediately came to my mind were Madison, WI, Ann Arbor, MI, and Grand Rapids, MI, but I'm open to many other suggestions as well. I'd generally prefer a more medium-sized city over a thriving metropolis, but I've also always been curious about the Twin Cities and Chicago as well.
Yeah, Madison sounds like a perfect fit. I was thinking that all along while reading your post and when I saw you mentioned it, I just had to agree.
Naperville, IL might be another good fit for you. Its not the most accepting place for gays, but there are many around and noone seems to care. Just an idea...
Yeah, Madison sounds like a perfect fit. I was thinking that all along while reading your post and when I saw you mentioned it, I just had to agree.
Naperville, IL might be another good fit for you. Its not the most accepting place for gays, but there are many around and noone seems to care. Just an idea...
Thanks for the insight. I really have to do more research into Madison. The thought of living in a downtown condo on an isthmus overlooking TWO lakes sounds awesome. It really sounds as if it would be a larger Scranton---only cleaner, friendlier, wealthier, more socially progressive, and more diverse. I've heard that the cost-of-living there is absolutely INSANE now, but then again it seems as if every socially liberal city in this nation is outrageously expensive. I'll have to do more research to see how accounting opportunities are in that part of the Badger State. I also see that Madison just had a banner year for snowfall---about 100 inches! That sure beats Scranton, where we've had below-average snowfalls now for the past several seasons, much to my displeasure.
I never really thought about Naperville, but isn't it more or less one giant endless suburb? Does it have a traditional downtown area with older well-kept homes nearby, or is it mostly vinyl-clad tract-housing on cul-de-sacs (which I do NOT want because I see enough of that here in PA). I'd love to be near to Chicago (since I don't know if I'd ever be able to afford the city proper), but not if it means trading my dreams of having a historic home for living in a McMansion.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 05-03-2008 at 12:35 AM..
Reason: Typo
Along the lines of two places you've thought of--Ann Arbor and Madison--a lot of college towns might be possibilities. Maybe Boulder or Iowa City, though I'm not sure how small a population you'd go for. If any part of the U.S. with snowy winters is a possibility, I might also suggest Missoula.
I have a feeling a people will tend to suggest college towns, so something that could help narrow this down would be for you to give an idea how you'd feel about some of the other characteristics often found in college towns, besides vibrant downtowns and more culture in many college towns than you'd find in other small and mid-sized cities, like crowds of drunken students downtown at night, and oppressive political correctness. If those sorts of things might be a problem, knowing this might help people suggest places where those factors are toned down to some degree.
Also, I don't think you mentioned anything about housing budget. That's another factor that could help people with suggestions. Finally, maybe a word on what intrigues you about Chicago and the Twin Cities, when you say you generally want to avoid big cities, might help narrow the focus about what you're looking for.
To throw a few more possibilities into the mix, though, I'll go with the college towns I suggested above, and add Champaign-Urbana and Portland, ME, as possibilities. Good luck.
I think San Francisco would be the completely perfect fit except for the medium size cities. I was thinking about it for each bullet.
1. Has, great weather, and 4 seasons. Also, if you don't like the weather you can drive 20 minutes east
2. Obviously San Francisco is very accepting and gay-friendly.
3. I'm sure there are plenty of oppurtunities
4. San Francisco is one of the most educated cities in the country, also very young.
5. Beautiful victorians, very walkable, great transit.
You could also look at nearby suburbs such as Santa Cruz or Berkeley.
San Francisco has obviously been on my radar for many years as well, but I've written it off due to some irrational reasons (which you can critique if you wish).
Some city on the West Coast, be it Seattle, San Francisco, or Los Angeles, is likely to be devastated by a major earthquake during my lifetime. I have a hunch it will be Seattle, but as we saw with all of the loss of life in the 1989 earthquake in San Francisco, there's no way to "predict" these. I wouldn't want to be squished like all of those poor folks were who were traveling on that double-decker freeway during the earthquake, and I especially am shocked that Seattle has yet to address the Alaskan Way Viaduct, which similarly would pancake itself in a strong earthquake and kill countless commuters. I can handle tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, etc. because you can at least have enough warning time with these to flee or take refuge, but there's literally no way to prepare for an earthquake other than to just hope and pray your building doesn't collapse.
I know it sounds odd, but I LOVE snow! San Francisco, to my knowledge, never receives snowfall, and I wouldn't want to have to drive a few hours into the Sierras just to get a taste of this. I currently derive much pleasure from shoveling the white stuff, and I couldn't live without it. There's just something to be said about a quiet natural scene in winter with birch trees lined with snow.
The cost-of-living in San Francisco is just completely unreasonable. Madison might be disproportionately expensive in relation to the rest of the Upper Midwest, but San Francisco is right up there with New York City, Paris, London, Tokyo, etc. in terms of unaffordability. How would a couple (CPA and a Salon owner) be able to purchase a typical $750,000 home in the city on a combined income of a mere $100,000? I just don't see how that's possible.
Along the lines of two places you've thought of--Ann Arbor and Madison--a lot of college towns might be possibilities. Maybe Boulder or Iowa City, though I'm not sure how small a population you'd go for. If any part of the U.S. with snowy winters is a possibility, I might also suggest Missoula.
I have a feeling a people will tend to suggest college towns, so something that could help narrow this down would be for you to give an idea how you'd feel about some of the other characteristics often found in college towns besides vibrant downtowns and often more culture than you'd find in small and mid-sized cities without colleges, like crowds of drunken students downtown at night, and oppressive political correctness. If those sorts of things might be a problem, knowing this might help people suggest places with where those factors are toned down to some degree.
Also, I don't think you mentioned anything about housing budget. That's another factor that could help people with suggestions. Finally, maybe a word on what intrigues you about Chicago and the Twin Cities, when you say you generally want to avoid big cities, might help narrow the focus about what you're looking for.
To get you started, though, I'll go with the college towns I suggested above, and add Champaign-Urbana and Portland, ME, as possibilities. Good luck.
Thank you very much for this very helpful and insightful reply. I visited Ithaca, NY for a photo tour, and that town reeked of political activism/correctness, environmentalism, student protests, etc. While I might find that to be an attractive quality right now as a 21-year-old social liberal, I've been told that as you age you tend to become more conservative; I don't want to be a 40-year-old party pooper or ogre who shakes his broom at rowdy college kids because they are disturbing him when he's trying to finish tax returns. Then again, you can also find many quiet neighborhoods in college towns that are away from all of the rowdiness.
As far as "size" goes, I'd be willing to go as small as Missoula, Ithaca, or Iowa City. Generally I'd want my "core" city to have no less than 30,000 people, but I have yet to decide just what type of city might be too large for me. I'm a little worried that if I go as small as those three aforementioned cities though that I'll run into the same problems I currently have of being unable to locate professional employment options.
I've always been intrigued by the Twin Cities because they seem to continuously be ranked in the Top 5 for each and every quality-of-life category ever released for major metropolitan areas in the U.S. Supposedly Minneapolis and St. Paul are amongst the most literate cities in the nation, they have thriving LGBT communities that aren't slammed by the heterosexual community, and they have the highest amount of cultural options per capita outside of NYC. I know they battle a MAJOR urban sprawl problem, but what major U.S. metropolitan area doesn't anymore? Chicago has always intrigued me too simply because it's like having the best of everything. You can go to the "beach" on the Lake Michigan shoreline to beat the heat on those sweltering summer days as well as enjoy ice fishing, snowmobiling, etc. not far outside of the city in the winter. Chicago's skyline looks to be very attractive, and aside from having an apparently insecure population judging by how everyone on this forum is always trying to "save" it in various "Chicago vs. ____" threads, it is a VERY formidable city. It may potentially host the 2016 Olympics, and our next president may list Chicago as his hometown.
What sets it apart from other large U.S. cities? I suppose not much. I've also been intrigued by Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis. There's just some sort of "edge" that those two cities have in my mind, and I don't quite know why. It probably has no rational explanation.
Housing budget? I'm supposing my starting salary as an accountant might be in the neighborhood of $45,000 in 2009. My partner will hopefully be earning around $30,000. At a combined income of $75,000 we'd probably be able to rent a 1-bedroom apartment in most of the more expensive cities that have been listed thus far or potentially purchase an older home with natural woodwork in need of renovation in a less expensive area. Going by the general rule of thumb that you should not purchase a home that has a price exceeding three times your annual household income, that would put my budget somewhere in the neighborhood of $225,000, which should afford us a fixer-upper in a city somewhere or the ability to rent until our incomes have climbed to the six-figure range through promotions.
How about an intellectual enclave that is part of a larger Metro Area?
Evanston, Illinois
Boulder, Colorado
If you'd compromise on the 4 seasons, Id definitely add Berkeley, California to that list as well.
Thanks. I've never really done much research into Evanston, but it sounds as if it might have a lot of the strong old "bones" that I have grown so fond of here in Scranton. What I like in a city is a strong neighborhood---the type of place where mothers push strollers down sidewalks, wave to neighbors who are sitting on front porches, initiate a conversation, and are then offered a glass of lemonade or iced tea. I want a type of neighborhood where people leave their lights on at night and participate in neighborhood watches to deter criminal activity. I want a place where people might be receptive to the idea of me forming a civic neighborhood association that would host annual block parties, clean-ups, reduced rates to baseball games, Easter egg hunts for children, etc. Growing up in a snooty suburb I was robbed of this sort of a childhood, and I want my own future children to live in a friendly, down-to-earth, middle-class city. Scranton had a lot of what I was looking for, but the employment outlook here is just horribly bleak. I was banking on the Wall Street West movement shifting thousands of positions in financial services, accounting, etc. into Northeastern Pennsylvania, but now I've been told that this movement has fallen through. Now there's just nothing to look forward to anymore to keep me here.
As far as Boulder is concerned I'd have to have a friendly chat with Katiana, who lives in Louisville, adjacent to Boulder. I don't know if I'd want to live in a city with a repuation for being "snobby." I know I've faced the brunt of a lot of naysaying and grimacing when I tell people I'm from the Scranton area, so I don't want to move to another area with a very negative external reputation (even if it is spawned out of sheer jealousy, as appears to be the case with Boulder). I don't want people to think "Ugh. He's a liberal hippie, stuck-up skiing snob, or militant gay vegetarian."
I don't think I'd be able to forgo the snow to consider Berkeley, but thanks for the thoughtful suggestion.
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