Metro and city population, and how big a city feels (theater, college)

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Here's a list of Urban Areas, Land Areas, and Density.

These are areas that have a contant spread of at least 1,000 people per square mile. If that chain is broken, the urban area is broken. That's why some cities look small, because they're split apart by mostly undeveloped land. There are multiple urban areas within a metro area.

1 New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT UA 17,799,861 8683.2 5309.3
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA UA 11,789,487 4319.9 7068.3
3 Chicago, IL-IN UA 8,307,904 5498.1 3913.6
4 Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE-MD UA 5,149,079 4660.7 2861.4
5 Miami, FL UA 4,919,036 2890.7 4407.4
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX UA 4,145,659 3644.2 2946.4
7 Boston, MA-NH-RI UA 4,032,484 4496.7 2322.6
8 Washington, DC-VA-MD UA 3,933,920 2996 3400.8
9 Detroit, MI UA 3,903,377 3267.1 3094.4
10 Houston, TX UA 3,822,509 3354.7 2951.1
11 Atlanta, GA UA 3,499,840 5083.1 1783.3
12 San Francisco-Oakland, CA UA 3,228,605 1364 6130.4
13 Phoenix-Mesa, AZ UA 2,907,049 2069.4 3638.3
14 Seattle, WA UA 2,712,205 2469.9 2844.1
15 San Diego, CA UA 2,674,436 2026.1 3418.7
16 Minneapolis-Saint Paul, MN UA 2,388,593 2316 2671.2
17 Saint Louis, MO-IL UA 2,077,662 2147 2506.4
18 Baltimore, MD UA 2,076,354 1768.3 3041.3
19 Tampa-Saint Petersburg, FL UA 2,062,339 2077.9 2570.6
20 Denver-Aurora, CO UA 1,984,889 1292 3979.1
21 Cleveland, OH UA 1,786,647 1675.7 2761.4
22 Pittsburgh, PA UA 1,753,136 2207.7 2056.7
23 Portland, OR-WA UA 1,583,138 1227.5 3340.3
24 San Jose, CA UA 1,538,312 673.7 5914.1
25 Riverside-San Bernardino, CA UA 1,506,816 1136.4 3434.1
26 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN UA 1,503,262 1739.9 2237.8
27 Virginia Beach, VA UA 1,394,439 1364.4 2647
28 Sacramento, CA UA 1,393,498 955.8 3776.1
29 Kansas City, MO-KS UA 1,361,744 1513.6 2330.1
30 San Antonio, TX UA 1,327,554 1055.6 3257.3
31 Las Vegas, NV UA 1,314,357 740.5 4597.1
32 Milwaukee, WI UA 1,308,913 1261.4 2687.5
33 Indianapolis- Carmel, IN UA 1,218,919 1432.1 2204.5
34 Providence, RI-MA UA 1,174,548 1304.4 2332.2
35 Orlando, FL UA 1,157,431 1173.8 2554
36 Columbus, OH UA 1,133,193 1030.1 2849.3
37 New Orleans, LA UA 1,009,283 512.4 5101.6
38 Buffalo, NY UA 976,703 949.7 2663.5
39 Memphis, TN-MS-AR UA 972,091 1035.5 2431.3
40 Austin, TX UA 901,920 823.9 2835.1
41 Bridgeport-Stamford, CT-NY UA 888,890 1205.1 1910.3
42 Salt Lake City, UT UA 887,650 597.6 3847.3
43 Jacksonville, FL UA 882,295 1063.2 2149.2
44 Louisville, KY-IN UA 863,582 1013.5 2207
45 Hartford, CT UA 851,535 1215.6 1814.3
46 Richmond, VA UA 818,836 1131.2 1874.8
47 Charlotte, NC-SC UA 758,927 1126.4 1745
48 Nashville-Davidson County, TN UA 749,935 1115.7 1740.9
49 Oklahoma City, OK UA 747,003 834.9 2317.4
50 Tucson, AZ UA 720,425 754.6 2472.7
51 Honolulu, HI UA 718,182 399.2 4659.8
52 Dayton, OH UA 703,444 838 2174.1
53 Rochester, NY UA 694,396 764.4 2352.7
54 El Paso, TX-NM UA 674,801 567.5 3079.6
55 Birmingham, AL UA 663,615 1015.5 1692.5
56 Omaha, NE-IA UA 626,623 586.3 2768.3
57 Madison, WI UA 601,283 582.1 2892.7
58 Albuquerque, NM UA 598,191 580 2671.1
59 Allentown-Bethlehem, PA-NJ UA 576,408 749.8 1991.1
60 Springfield, MA-CT UA 573,610 800.3 1856.5
61 Akron, OH UA 570,215 797.2 1852.5
62 Sarasota-Bradenton, FL UA 559,229 700.4 2067.8
63 Albany, NY UA 558,947 736.2 1966.4
64 Tulsa, OK UA 558,329 677 2135.9
65 Fresno, CA UA 554,923 359 4003.1
66 Concord, CA UA 552,624 457 3131.8
67 Raleigh, NC UA 541,527 827.8 1694.3
68 Grand Rapids, MI UA 539,080 666.5 2094.7
69 Mission Viejo, CA UA 533,015 354.5 3893.9
70 New Haven, CT UA 531,314 738.9 1862.2
71 McAllen, TX UA 523,144 812.8 1667
72 Toledo, OH-MI UA 503,008 524 2486.1
73 Baton Rouge, LA UA 479,019 726.9 1706.8
74 Colorado Springs, CO UA 466,122 511.2 2361.7
75 Worcester, MA-CT UA 429,882 648.3 1717.3
76 Charleston-North Charleston, SC UA 423,410 598.1 1833.4
77 Wichita, KS UA 422,301 464.9 2352.5
78 Columbia, SC UA 420,537 696.5 1563.7
79 Knoxville, TN UA 419,830 879.3 1236.7
80 Ogden-Layton, UT UA 417,933 466.3 2321.1
81 Youngstown, OH-PA UA 417,437 591.2 1828.7
82 Syracuse, NY UA 402,267 465.3 2239.1
83 Bakersfield, CA UA 396,125 285.7 3590.5
84 Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL UA 393,289 569.1 1789.8
85 Scranton, PA UA 385,237 411 2427.4
86 Des Moines, IA UA 370,505 363.4 2640.4
87 Flint, MI UA 365,096 598.6 1579.7
88 Harrisburg, PA UA 362,782 539.7 1740.9
89 Little Rock, AR UA 360,331 532.4 1752.8
90 Poughkeepsie-Newburgh, NY UA 351,982 686.3 1328.3
91 Chattanooga, TN-GA UA 343,509 751.1 1184.5
92 Oxnard, CA UA 337,591 196.1 4459.7
93 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC UA 335,630 600.3 1448
94 Spokane, WA-ID UA 334,858 370.5 2340.8
95 Cape Coral, FL UA 329,757 496.8 1719.1
96 Pensacola, FL-AL UA 323,783 568.1 1476
97 Lancaster, PA UA 323,554 516.5 1622.4
98 Mobile, AL UA 317,605 545.9 1506.9
99 Stockton, CA UA 313,392 192.4 4218.4
100 Modesto, CA UA 310,945 222.9 3612.4
101 Reno, NV UA 303,689 307.2 2560.5
102 Provo-Orem, UT UA 303,680 220.2 3572.7
103 Greenville, SC UA 302,194 586.7 1334
104 Lansing, MI UA 300,032 354.5 2192.1
105 Denton-Lewisville, TX UA 299,823 314.9 2466.2
106 Winston-Salem, NC UA 299,290 651.1 1190.6
107 Corpus Christi, TX UA 293,925 285.7 2665
108 Jackson, MS UA 292,637 416.6 1819.4
109 Durham, NC UA 287,796 406.1 1835.7
110 Fort Wayne, IN UA 287,759 350.3 2127.6
111 Santa Rosa, CA UA 285,408 264.1 2798.5
112 Ann Arbor, MI UA 283,904 333.5 2205
113 South Bend, IN-MI UA 276,498 403.5 1774.7
114 Fayetteville, NC UA 276,368 432.9 1653.6
115 Shreveport, LA UA 275,213 400.6 1779.4
116 Boise, ID UA 272,625 281.5 2508.5
117 Port Saint Lucie, FL UA 270,774 437.8 1602
118 Davenport, IA-IL UA 270,626 320.8 2184.8
119 Rockford, IL UA 270,414 360.2 1944.3
120 Trenton, NJ UA 268,472 238.6 2914.4
121 Greensboro, NC UA 267,884 350.9 1977.5
122 Canton, OH UA 266,595 371.7 1857.7
123 Lancaster-Palmdale, CA UA 263,532 234.1 2915.3
124 Daytona Beach-Port Orange, FL UA 255,353 294.1 2248.6
125 Indio-Cathedral City-Palm Springs, CA UA 254,856 255.3 2585
126 Lexington-Fayette County, KY UA 250,994 180.1 3608.9
127 Peoria, IL UA 247,172 318.9 2007.2
128 Barnstable, MA UA 243,667 741.1 851.5
129 Columbus, GA-AL UA 242,324 352.6 1779.8
130 Reading, PA UA 240,264 260.7 2387.2
131 Temecula-Murrieta, CA UA 229,810 247.6 2404
132 Atlantic City, NJ UA 227,180 313 1879.7
133 Round Lake Beach-McHenry-Grayslake, IL-WI UA 226,848 344.9 1703.7
134 Lincoln, NE UA 226,582 202.3 2900.6
135 Anchorage, AK UA 225,744 204.2 2863
136 Eugene, OR UA 224,049 177.4 3270.8
137 Asheville, NC UA 221,570 535.5 1071.6
138 Bonita Springs-Naples, FL UA 221,251 389.1 1472.9
139 Antioch, CA UA 217,591 156.1 3609.8
140 Springfield, MO UA 215,004 294 1894.2
141 Huntsville, AL UA 213,253 407.2 1356.5
142 Evansville, IN-KY UA 211,989 273.8 2005.2
143 Thousand Oaks, CA UA 210,990 223.2 2448.6
144 Savannah, GA UA 208,886 265.2 2040.1
145 Salem, OR UA 207,229 179.3 2993.9
146 Fort Collins, CO UA 206,757 216.7 2471.6
147 Gulfport-Biloxi, MS UA 205,754 349.4 1525.1
148 Tallahassee, FL UA 204,260 294.9 1793.7
149 Lubbock, TX UA 202,225 193 2713.7
150 Victorville-Hesperia-Apple Valley, CA UA 200,436 321.1 1616.8

Thanks for the list. Please remind us how a UA differs from an MSA. Is it that UAs don't count entire counties if the county has undeveloped land, unlike MSAs where the entire county is included?

Are there maps available?

[brri]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Here's a list of Urban Areas, Land Areas, and Density.

These are areas that have a contant spread of at least 1,000 people per square mile. If that chain is broken, the urban area is broken. That's why some cities look small, because they're split apart by mostly undeveloped land. There are multiple urban areas within a metro area.

1 New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT UA 17,799,861 8683.2 5309.3
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA UA 11,789,487 4319.9 7068.3
3 Chicago, IL-IN UA 8,307,904 5498.1 3913.6
4 Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE-MD UA 5,149,079 4660.7 2861.4
5 Miami, FL UA 4,919,036 2890.7 4407.4
6 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX UA 4,145,659 3644.2 2946.4
7 Boston, MA-NH-RI UA 4,032,484 4496.7 2322.6
8 Washington, DC-VA-MD UA 3,933,920 2996 3400.8
9 Detroit, MI UA 3,903,377 3267.1 3094.4
10 Houston, TX UA 3,822,509 3354.7 2951.1
11 Atlanta, GA UA 3,499,840 5083.1 1783.3
12 San Francisco-Oakland, CA UA 3,228,605 1364 6130.4
13 Phoenix-Mesa, AZ UA 2,907,049 2069.4 3638.3
14 Seattle, WA UA 2,712,205 2469.9 2844.1
15 San Diego, CA UA 2,674,436 2026.1 3418.7
16 Minneapolis-Saint Paul, MN UA 2,388,593 2316 2671.2
17 Saint Louis, MO-IL UA 2,077,662 2147 2506.4
18 Baltimore, MD UA 2,076,354 1768.3 3041.3
19 Tampa-Saint Petersburg, FL UA 2,062,339 2077.9 2570.6
20 Denver-Aurora, CO UA 1,984,889 1292 3979.1
21 Cleveland, OH UA 1,786,647 1675.7 2761.4
22 Pittsburgh, PA UA 1,753,136 2207.7 2056.7
23 Portland, OR-WA UA 1,583,138 1227.5 3340.3
24 San Jose, CA UA 1,538,312 673.7 5914.1
25 Riverside-San Bernardino, CA UA 1,506,816 1136.4 3434.1
26 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN UA 1,503,262 1739.9 2237.8
27 Virginia Beach, VA UA 1,394,439 1364.4 2647
28 Sacramento, CA UA 1,393,498 955.8 3776.1
29 Kansas City, MO-KS UA 1,361,744 1513.6 2330.1
30 San Antonio, TX UA 1,327,554 1055.6 3257.3
31 Las Vegas, NV UA 1,314,357 740.5 4597.1
32 Milwaukee, WI UA 1,308,913 1261.4 2687.5
33 Indianapolis- Carmel, IN UA 1,218,919 1432.1 2204.5
34 Providence, RI-MA UA 1,174,548 1304.4 2332.2
35 Orlando, FL UA 1,157,431 1173.8 2554
36 Columbus, OH UA 1,133,193 1030.1 2849.3
37 New Orleans, LA UA 1,009,283 512.4 5101.6
38 Buffalo, NY UA 976,703 949.7 2663.5
39 Memphis, TN-MS-AR UA 972,091 1035.5 2431.3
40 Austin, TX UA 901,920 823.9 2835.1
41 Bridgeport-Stamford, CT-NY UA 888,890 1205.1 1910.3
42 Salt Lake City, UT UA 887,650 597.6 3847.3
43 Jacksonville, FL UA 882,295 1063.2 2149.2
44 Louisville, KY-IN UA 863,582 1013.5 2207
45 Hartford, CT UA 851,535 1215.6 1814.3
46 Richmond, VA UA 818,836 1131.2 1874.8
47 Charlotte, NC-SC UA 758,927 1126.4 1745
48 Nashville-Davidson County, TN UA 749,935 1115.7 1740.9
49 Oklahoma City, OK UA 747,003 834.9 2317.4
50 Tucson, AZ UA 720,425 754.6 2472.7
51 Honolulu, HI UA 718,182 399.2 4659.8
52 Dayton, OH UA 703,444 838 2174.1
53 Rochester, NY UA 694,396 764.4 2352.7
54 El Paso, TX-NM UA 674,801 567.5 3079.6
55 Birmingham, AL UA 663,615 1015.5 1692.5
56 Omaha, NE-IA UA 626,623 586.3 2768.3
57 Madison, WI UA 601,283 582.1 2892.7
58 Albuquerque, NM UA 598,191 580 2671.1
59 Allentown-Bethlehem, PA-NJ UA 576,408 749.8 1991.1
60 Springfield, MA-CT UA 573,610 800.3 1856.5
61 Akron, OH UA 570,215 797.2 1852.5
62 Sarasota-Bradenton, FL UA 559,229 700.4 2067.8
63 Albany, NY UA 558,947 736.2 1966.4
64 Tulsa, OK UA 558,329 677 2135.9
65 Fresno, CA UA 554,923 359 4003.1
66 Concord, CA UA 552,624 457 3131.8
67 Raleigh, NC UA 541,527 827.8 1694.3
68 Grand Rapids, MI UA 539,080 666.5 2094.7
69 Mission Viejo, CA UA 533,015 354.5 3893.9
70 New Haven, CT UA 531,314 738.9 1862.2
71 McAllen, TX UA 523,144 812.8 1667
72 Toledo, OH-MI UA 503,008 524 2486.1
73 Baton Rouge, LA UA 479,019 726.9 1706.8
74 Colorado Springs, CO UA 466,122 511.2 2361.7
75 Worcester, MA-CT UA 429,882 648.3 1717.3
76 Charleston-North Charleston, SC UA 423,410 598.1 1833.4
77 Wichita, KS UA 422,301 464.9 2352.5
78 Columbia, SC UA 420,537 696.5 1563.7
79 Knoxville, TN UA 419,830 879.3 1236.7
80 Ogden-Layton, UT UA 417,933 466.3 2321.1
81 Youngstown, OH-PA UA 417,437 591.2 1828.7
82 Syracuse, NY UA 402,267 465.3 2239.1
83 Bakersfield, CA UA 396,125 285.7 3590.5
84 Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL UA 393,289 569.1 1789.8
85 Scranton, PA UA 385,237 411 2427.4
86 Des Moines, IA UA 370,505 363.4 2640.4
87 Flint, MI UA 365,096 598.6 1579.7
88 Harrisburg, PA UA 362,782 539.7 1740.9
89 Little Rock, AR UA 360,331 532.4 1752.8
90 Poughkeepsie-Newburgh, NY UA 351,982 686.3 1328.3
91 Chattanooga, TN-GA UA 343,509 751.1 1184.5
92 Oxnard, CA UA 337,591 196.1 4459.7
93 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC UA 335,630 600.3 1448
94 Spokane, WA-ID UA 334,858 370.5 2340.8
95 Cape Coral, FL UA 329,757 496.8 1719.1
96 Pensacola, FL-AL UA 323,783 568.1 1476
97 Lancaster, PA UA 323,554 516.5 1622.4
98 Mobile, AL UA 317,605 545.9 1506.9
99 Stockton, CA UA 313,392 192.4 4218.4
100 Modesto, CA UA 310,945 222.9 3612.4
101 Reno, NV UA 303,689 307.2 2560.5
102 Provo-Orem, UT UA 303,680 220.2 3572.7
103 Greenville, SC UA 302,194 586.7 1334
104 Lansing, MI UA 300,032 354.5 2192.1
105 Denton-Lewisville, TX UA 299,823 314.9 2466.2
106 Winston-Salem, NC UA 299,290 651.1 1190.6
107 Corpus Christi, TX UA 293,925 285.7 2665
108 Jackson, MS UA 292,637 416.6 1819.4
109 Durham, NC UA 287,796 406.1 1835.7
110 Fort Wayne, IN UA 287,759 350.3 2127.6
111 Santa Rosa, CA UA 285,408 264.1 2798.5
112 Ann Arbor, MI UA 283,904 333.5 2205
113 South Bend, IN-MI UA 276,498 403.5 1774.7
114 Fayetteville, NC UA 276,368 432.9 1653.6
115 Shreveport, LA UA 275,213 400.6 1779.4
116 Boise, ID UA 272,625 281.5 2508.5
117 Port Saint Lucie, FL UA 270,774 437.8 1602
118 Davenport, IA-IL UA 270,626 320.8 2184.8
119 Rockford, IL UA 270,414 360.2 1944.3
120 Trenton, NJ UA 268,472 238.6 2914.4
121 Greensboro, NC UA 267,884 350.9 1977.5
122 Canton, OH UA 266,595 371.7 1857.7
123 Lancaster-Palmdale, CA UA 263,532 234.1 2915.3
124 Daytona Beach-Port Orange, FL UA 255,353 294.1 2248.6
125 Indio-Cathedral City-Palm Springs, CA UA 254,856 255.3 2585
126 Lexington-Fayette County, KY UA 250,994 180.1 3608.9
127 Peoria, IL UA 247,172 318.9 2007.2
128 Barnstable, MA UA 243,667 741.1 851.5
129 Columbus, GA-AL UA 242,324 352.6 1779.8
130 Reading, PA UA 240,264 260.7 2387.2
131 Temecula-Murrieta, CA UA 229,810 247.6 2404
132 Atlantic City, NJ UA 227,180 313 1879.7
133 Round Lake Beach-McHenry-Grayslake, IL-WI UA 226,848 344.9 1703.7
134 Lincoln, NE UA 226,582 202.3 2900.6
135 Anchorage, AK UA 225,744 204.2 2863
136 Eugene, OR UA 224,049 177.4 3270.8
137 Asheville, NC UA 221,570 535.5 1071.6
138 Bonita Springs-Naples, FL UA 221,251 389.1 1472.9
139 Antioch, CA UA 217,591 156.1 3609.8
140 Springfield, MO UA 215,004 294 1894.2
141 Huntsville, AL UA 213,253 407.2 1356.5
142 Evansville, IN-KY UA 211,989 273.8 2005.2
143 Thousand Oaks, CA UA 210,990 223.2 2448.6
144 Savannah, GA UA 208,886 265.2 2040.1
145 Salem, OR UA 207,229 179.3 2993.9
146 Fort Collins, CO UA 206,757 216.7 2471.6
147 Gulfport-Biloxi, MS UA 205,754 349.4 1525.1
148 Tallahassee, FL UA 204,260 294.9 1793.7
149 Lubbock, TX UA 202,225 193 2713.7
150 Victorville-Hesperia-Apple Valley, CA UA 200,436 321.1 1616.8

Most sunbelt city's Urban Areas have grown a lot larger than this. The last UA count was way back in 2000, "ages ago" in sunbelt terms. Plus, some Southern metros tend to be multi-nodal, meaning that although the UA may be broken up for a few miles, they are ringed by decent-sized suburbs a few miles away from where the UA ends. However, I concur that it may give the appearance of the city itself being somewhat smaller since not all the larger parts of the metro are connected.

[Journey2LS]

I think a city feels larger by its metro size. City boundaries and population mean nothing, the metro area make up the city. Portland has more people than Miami, but Miami is a larger city with more amenities.

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by brri

Most sunbelt city's Urban Areas have grown a lot larger than this. The last UA count was way back in 2000, "ages ago" in sunbelt terms. Plus, some Southern metros tend to be multi-nodal, meaning that although the UA may be broken up for a few miles, they are ringed by decent-sized suburbs a few miles away from where the UA ends. However, I concur that it may give the appearance of the city itself being somewhat smaller since not all the larger parts of the metro are connected.

Right, some of them have a huge difference. I think the more sprawling your suburbs, the more you're going to see multiple urban areas. I know Chicago has a CSA of around 9,750,000 right now, but this only lists 8,300,000 or whatever. The suburbs of Chicago REALLY sprawl out since there's no land issues as far as usable land. I actually heard Chicago is the 3rd largest "city" in the world by land area, after Tokyo and New York. Pretty sad, seeing how it's the 26th largest urban area in the world based off population. Lots of low density sprawl out in the suburbs. I wish there was something we could do about that right now, cause it's really going to come back to haunt us when those sprawling suburbs get older and need a lot of upkeep and repair. Between having many fewer taxpayers per square mile of land area that needs basic services, roads, sewers, etc, and the car culture that is finally looking at the oil price shock - it's going to be an interesting time for the car required suburbs.

[missionhome]

Interesting to see that Los Angeles, despite the cities reputation, is the least sprawling of all metro areas. Even New York and San Francisco had lower densities when you look at the entire metro area. Hence all our traffic problems in So Cal, a dense population that has few options for public transportation and crams the freeways with cars.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Right, some of them have a huge difference. I think the more sprawling your suburbs, the more you're going to see multiple urban areas. I know Chicago has a CSA of around 9,750,000 right now, but this only lists 8,300,000 or whatever. The suburbs of Chicago REALLY sprawl out since there's no land issues as far as usable land. I actually heard Chicago is the 3rd largest "city" in the world by land area, after Tokyo and New York. Pretty sad, seeing how it's the 26th largest urban area in the world based off population. Lots of low density sprawl out in the suburbs. I wish there was something we could do about that right now, cause it's really going to come back to haunt us when those sprawling suburbs get older and need a lot of upkeep and repair. Between having many fewer taxpayers per square mile of land area that needs basic services, roads, sewers, etc, and the car culture that is finally looking at the oil price shock - it's going to be an interesting time for the car required suburbs.

When you consider what is the Chicago CSA, yes, it's huge! From practically Milwaukee south to Kankakee, and east into Porter Co. IN (which is part of some Gary metro area). It would be nice to see a map. I seriously doubt that many people are driving from Valparaiso into Chicago. In fact, when people bring it up on the NWI forum, everyone tells them they are crazy for even considering it. My point is that most people are likely working no more than 30 miles from home. So the metro area is big, and is all considered Chicago. That doesn't mean everyone is working downtown.

From Wikipedia:

The OMB also defines a slightly larger region, the Combined Statistical Area (CSA), combining the metropolitan areas of Chicago, Michigan City (in Indiana), and Kankakee (in Illinois). This area represents the extent of the labor market pool for the entire region. The combined statistical area, of which the Chicago metropolitan area is part, has a population of 9,725,317 (as of 2006).[3]

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Right, some of them have a huge difference. I think the more sprawling your suburbs, the more you're going to see multiple urban areas. I know Chicago has a CSA of around 9,750,000 right now, but this only lists 8,300,000 or whatever. The suburbs of Chicago REALLY sprawl out since there's no land issues as far as usable land. I actually heard Chicago is the 3rd largest "city" in the world by land area, after Tokyo and New York. Pretty sad, seeing how it's the 26th largest urban area in the world based off population. Lots of low density sprawl out in the suburbs. I wish there was something we could do about that right now, cause it's really going to come back to haunt us when those sprawling suburbs get older and need a lot of upkeep and repair. Between having many fewer taxpayers per square mile of land area that needs basic services, roads, sewers, etc, and the car culture that is finally looking at the oil price shock - it's going to be an interesting time for the car required suburbs.

When you consider what is the Chicago CSA, yes, it's huge! From practically Milwaukee south to Kankakee, and east into Porter Co. IN (which is part of some Gary metro area). It would be nice to see a map. I seriously doubt that many people are driving from Valparaiso into Chicago. In fact, when people bring it up on the NWI forum, everyone tells them they are crazy for even considering it. My point is that people are likely working no more than 30 miles from home. So the metro area is big, and is all considered Chicago. That doesn't mean everyone is working downtown.

From Wikipedia:

The OMB also defines a slightly larger region, the Combined Statistical Area (CSA), combining the metropolitan areas of Chicago, Michigan City (in Indiana), and Kankakee (in Illinois). This area represents the extent of the labor market pool for the entire region. The combined statistical area, of which the Chicago metropolitan area is part, has a population of 9,725,317 (as of 2006).[3]

Chicago metropolitan area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ogre]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Thanks for the list. Please remind us how a UA differs from an MSA. Is it that UAs don't count entire counties if the county has undeveloped land, unlike MSAs where the entire county is included?

Are there maps available?

That's it exactly. The MSA's components are entire counties. The UA is only that unbroken land area that maintains the 1,000/sq. mi. or greater population density.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by theSUBlime

Wasn't criticizing your wording, just giving you another view. I dunno, (as always) sometimes a city that has a big metro (or city proper for that matter) is smaller than you think or a smaller metro is bigger than you think. Some cities simply have more media presence...is what I'm getting at. For example, Boston has a lot of historical presence, and is very dense but it is much smaller (with respect to population and area) than I thought it would be.

And, as a matter of fact, given your ealier post about how it's a matter of perception, it's interesting that here on this thread so far are some good examples of the effect that personal perception has. To you, Boston seemed smaller than you expected, in great part because it does in fact have a relatively small land area (you mentioned population as well, but then, the population would be larger if the city included more of the adjacent densely populated core). Going the other way, 60614 says San Francisco seems larger than Indianapolis, and Ben Around feels that Pittsburgh seems like a bigger city than Phoenix or Mesa, because Indy and the AZ cities are sprawling cities, while Frisco and Pittsburgh are dense and active in their core areas. This appears to be the same reason that UglyblackJ finds San Diego to be more of a real city than Riverside, or that Vegaspilgrim finds Abuquerque similar to Phoenix despite the disparity in even the metro area populations of those two cities.

This variation in perception--whether cities that cover more area or those that have a lot packed into a small area seem like bigger cities--might sound familiar to those who followed the thread that was going strong a few weeks ago that posed the question of whether Boston or Atlanta felt bigger. After the first few posts, that thread started going in circles. People went back and forth for quite a few posts, each using slightly different wording to express the ideas that: No, you're wrong, Atlanta feels bigger because it has some degree of density that goes on and on for miles, or: No, you're wrong, Boston feels bigger because it's really dense, and has a lot more activity packed into its central city. It became clear that it all came down to two very different perceptions about what caused a city to seem or feel like a big city.

I'm inclined to think that metro area population affects the apparent size of either type of city. For those who find that sprawl makes a city seem larger, the overall area of a city and its environs will have a lot more sprawl if there is a substantially larger suburban population surrounding the city. A more densely packed city will have more activity, more buildings, etc., in its core area, the larger the surrounding population from which the city draws people for work, shopping, and making use of services. Still, I can't help but have a sense that below some minimum population a city will feel kind of small even if it has a fairly large metro population.

[uglyblackjohn]

This list is a lot different from the information I've seen. On most lists the Victorville,Indio and Temecula UAs are considered part of the Riverside metro area. The Mission Viejo, Lancaster,Thousand Oaks and Oxnard UAs are usually stated as being in the Los Angeles metro area. On some lists, the whole Inand Empire (the UAs in the Riverside metro) is included in the Los Angeles metro. I guess thats from where a lot of the confusion comes when people argue over a cities population. (On other threads in C-D)