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Old 10-04-2017, 12:36 PM
 
3,961 posts, read 3,493,210 times
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Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
We can’t even agree on what the Rust Belt is. Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore saw population declines similar to Chicago’s, but no one calls those Rust Belt cities. I’d say every northeastern city below the second-tier (DC, BOS, PHI) could reasonably be described as rustbelt.
Well I don't think population declines alone are the sole definition of Rust Belt. Every major city experienced declines between 1950-1990 during the rise of suburbia. Even cities that are now considered sunbelt like Jacksonville saw an abandonment or significant weakening of their cores. I would say it's a combination of population declines, when and if the declines started reversing by the 1990's, and if they had struggled to make an economic transition out of the industrialized roots that made them giants, that later became the noose around their necks.

Also there are several examples of Rust Belt cities recovering. I would challenge the notion that Philadelphia was not Rust Belt. It has turned a corner, but it arguably fell further than any other city in the NE. The term Rust Belt came into the vernacular during the 1980s. At that time Baltimore, DC, and Philly could have firmly been described as such. I would argue any city struggling under these conditions at that time should be classified as Rust Belt, whether they have recovered or not.

Last edited by mjlo; 10-04-2017 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:43 PM
 
1,593 posts, read 833,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
We canít even agree on what the Rust Belt is. Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore saw population declines similar to Chicagoís, but no one calls those Rust Belt cities. Iíd say every northeastern city below the second-tier (DC, BOS, PHI) could reasonably be described as rustbelt.
Some of that is a demographic shift. There are fewer people having like 10 kids in a 3 bedroom apartment. Now those same apartments have 1 thirty year old. Even some sunbelt cities have shrunk if you don't count annexation.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:21 AM
 
387 posts, read 368,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
It may help if we organized the rust belt cities into categories. Certainly, some rust belt cities are doing very well and are quite vibrant, while others are abandoned and crumbling.

The Dead and Dying Rust-Belt Cities:

Detroit, Flint, Youngstown, Jackson (MI), Lansing, Battle Creek

Barely Hanging On:

Cleveland, Buffalo, Binghamton, Scranton, Wheeling (WV), Toledo, Dayton, Fort Wayne, Erie, Akron.

Stable or Recovering:

St. Louis, Milwaukee, Cincinnatti, Grand Rapids,

Vibrant:

Indianapolis, Columbus, Chicago, Pittsburgh (one in every state, actually)

Feel free to add or make changes to my list.
Um, Pittsburgh would actually be one of those cities that is barely hanging on.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:36 AM
 
387 posts, read 368,452 times
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As far as I’m concerned the Rust Belt is not going to rebound anytime in the foreseeable future. Problem is that the Rust Belt cities still can’t come up with an economy that could benefit the general population. Now let’s take a look at the Sun Belt which has had remarkable economic growth mainly because cities there have came up with an economy that could benefit the general population. For example, a lot of the Sun Belt depend primarily on a service based economy, which means a bunch a people would work jobs like in a warehouse or a retail store, but better yet a lot of light manufacturing has came over to supplement their economies. The Rust Belt hasn’t exactly managed to do that, and their merely attempting to move to a knowledge based economy by means of gentrification, and that right there is not the answer. A knowledge based economy would require everyone to work a professional level job and you couldn’t possibly get every single person in a Rust Belt city to work such a job. So as it stands out gentrification is not the answer and nor is a knowledge based economy. We’ll just have to make do with a service based economy.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:43 AM
 
2,006 posts, read 1,019,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
As far as Iím concerned the Rust Belt is not going to rebound anytime in the foreseeable future. Problem is that the Rust Belt cities still canít come up with an economy that could benefit the general population. Now letís take a look at the Sun Belt which has had remarkable economic growth mainly because cities there have came up with an economy that could benefit the general population. For example, a lot of the Sun Belt depend primarily on a service based economy, which means a bunch a people would work jobs like in a warehouse or a retail store, but better yet a lot of light manufacturing has came over to supplement their economies. The Rust Belt hasnít exactly managed to do that, and their merely attempting to move to a knowledge based economy by means of gentrification, and that right there is not the answer. A knowledge based economy would require everyone to work a professional level job and you couldnít possibly get every single person in a Rust Belt city to work such a job. So as it stands out gentrification is not the answer and nor is a knowledge based economy. Weíll just have to make do with a service based economy.

Milwaukee is doing well....very low unemployment.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 638,300 times
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Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
I don't have anything to add, I just hate the term "Rustbelt" though.
Me either, I always hated that term. It sounds like it's something derogatory.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
1,242 posts, read 638,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
We canít even agree on what the Rust Belt is. Boston, Philadelphia and Baltimore saw population declines similar to Chicagoís, but no one calls those Rust Belt cities. Iíd say every northeastern city below the second-tier (DC, BOS, PHI) could reasonably be described as rustbelt.
They won't call Baltimore, Boston and Philly the Rust Belt because their considered East Coast cities.
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:25 PM
 
56,617 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
As far as Iím concerned the Rust Belt is not going to rebound anytime in the foreseeable future. Problem is that the Rust Belt cities still canít come up with an economy that could benefit the general population. Now letís take a look at the Sun Belt which has had remarkable economic growth mainly because cities there have came up with an economy that could benefit the general population. For example, a lot of the Sun Belt depend primarily on a service based economy, which means a bunch a people would work jobs like in a warehouse or a retail store, but better yet a lot of light manufacturing has came over to supplement their economies. The Rust Belt hasnít exactly managed to do that, and their merely attempting to move to a knowledge based economy by means of gentrification, and that right there is not the answer. A knowledge based economy would require everyone to work a professional level job and you couldnít possibly get every single person in a Rust Belt city to work such a job. So as it stands out gentrification is not the answer and nor is a knowledge based economy. Weíll just have to make do with a service based economy.
Plenty of service jobs and some manufacturing still in said areas.

If anything, there isnít as much gentrification in as many of these cities in comparison to cities in other regions.
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:32 PM
 
1,593 posts, read 833,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QCongress83216 View Post
They won't call Baltimore, Boston and Philly the Rust Belt because their considered East Coast cities.
Boston isn't rust belt because it lost its industrial base in the 1910's and 1920's. The rust belt was booming when Boston and other New England cities were losing their manufacturing. Boston would have been Rust Belt in 1910 not 1970.
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:38 PM
 
3,961 posts, read 3,493,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_General View Post
Boston isn't rust belt because it lost its industrial base in the 1910's and 1920's. The rust belt was booming when Boston and other New England cities were losing their manufacturing. Boston would have been Rust Belt in 1910 not 1970.
Boston experienced Rust Belt esque declines from the 1950's-1980s and is still about 150k below it's 1950 population peak. Big difference being that Boston started recovering in the 80s similar to tech cities like Portland, San Francisco, and Seattle. Where a lot of other decliners didn't hit their low point until the 1990 census.
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