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Old 06-16-2008, 10:25 PM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,375,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newcastle View Post
Yes, it is true that there are certain cities that are desperate for salvation (Cleveland, Detroit, Gary, Buffalo, Rochester, Toledo, Erie, Duluth, Milwaukee among others) Cleveland, according to the Federal Reserve Bank, is the poorest big city in the US wiht 1/3 of it's residents living in poverty. In today's society, families can choose to live in a number of cities and still work for the same employer. So, this poverty rate may say something more about Cleveland than other Great Lakes Cities.

The focus of the region should be to tap into the wealth of educated young workers and seek ways to keep them in the region rather than seeing vast amounts of young students, and young families leave the region for better prospects in "cooler cities" like Seattle, Portland, and cities in the South and East like Miami and Charlotte.

The detractor is that most Great Lakes Cities do not offer the high job growth, high average pay, and employment opportuntites that other major metros offer to the same degree. Notable exceptions include Chicago and perhaps Pittsburgh.
I wouldn't dump Milwaukee in there. I was just up there last weekend and was amazed at what a clean and beautiful city it was. The downtown was gorgeous, and the city seems very healthy. It lost some population, but almost every pre 1950's urban cities have as our country tends to "spread out" a little more than we use to, or anyone else in the world does.
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Old 06-16-2008, 11:52 PM
 
2,502 posts, read 8,049,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I wouldn't dump Milwaukee in there. I was just up there last weekend and was amazed at what a clean and beautiful city it was. The downtown was gorgeous, and the city seems very healthy. It lost some population, but almost every pre 1950's urban cities have as our country tends to "spread out" a little more than we use to, or anyone else in the world does.
Milwaukee is improving, but a lot of downtown still consists of grungy old factories and run down / abandoned buildings.

(Although, to be honest, the nearly-empty condos they're starting to replace these buildings with are absolutely pointless...no one's buying them!)
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:27 AM
 
721 posts, read 2,352,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I wouldn't dump Milwaukee in there. I was just up there last weekend and was amazed at what a clean and beautiful city it was. The downtown was gorgeous, and the city seems very healthy. It lost some population, but almost every pre 1950's urban cities have as our country tends to "spread out" a little more than we use to, or anyone else in the world does.
Milwaukee has lost thousands of manufacturing jobs in this decade, continues to lose poulation, and has a high poverty and crime rate. Recent Journal Sentinal articles state that Milwaukee is the 7th poorest city in the country. 41% of children in Milwaukee live under the poverty line. JS Online: State's poverty rate rises fastest in nation (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=351964 - broken link) A nice downtown does not mean that the city is doing well, unfortunately.
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Old 06-17-2008, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,005 posts, read 69,411,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newcastle View Post
Milwaukee has lost thousands of manufacturing jobs in this decade, continues to lose poulation, and has a high poverty and crime rate. Recent Journal Sentinal articles state that Milwaukee is the 7th poorest city in the country. 41% of children in Milwaukee live under the poverty line. JS Online: State's poverty rate rises fastest in nation (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=351964 - broken link) A nice downtown does not mean that the city is doing well, unfortunately.
Its a start! Look at places like NM, that are growing pretty good, but also have some of the poorest, filthy living conditions that you can imagine. Ive seen towns in TX, NM, AZ that would make you cry. Funny how noone ever mentions that. They just look at the boomtowns and forget the rest of their state.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Southeast
4,296 posts, read 6,272,549 times
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If the 'Rust Belt' is going to change, the change must be political first, as really that is what caused the problems to begin with. Workers became too Unioinized, and it was becoming unprofitable for the companies who relied on them. Instead of waiting around for the workers to demand even more, the companies packed up and moved South. It isn't really anything new, this has been going on since the end of World War II.

Red States (i.e. the Sunbelt) allow for much more favorable business conditions. A motivated and ethical workforce, as well as lower costs of living allow people to survive on 30-40K per year. Unions are practically non-existent, and as a result the Sunbelt is growing. European manufactures have also flocked to the Sunbelt. The Rust Belt sticks true to its name with the urban decay, but such is the price for Liberalism.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:23 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Come the total breakdown of American society places like Detroit and Pittsburg will once again be well placed and once again in demand.
Well, that's something to look forward to! I'm not sure if I follow that logic, anyway.
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:25 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,750,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie117 View Post
If the 'Rust Belt' is going to change, the change must be political first, as really that is what caused the problems to begin with. Workers became too Unioinized, and it was becoming unprofitable for the companies who relied on them. Instead of waiting around for the workers to demand even more, the companies packed up and moved South. It isn't really anything new, this has been going on since the end of World War II.

Red States (i.e. the Sunbelt) allow for much more favorable business conditions. A motivated and ethical workforce, as well as lower costs of living allow people to survive on 30-40K per year. Unions are practically non-existent, and as a result the Sunbelt is growing. European manufactures have also flocked to the Sunbelt. The Rust Belt sticks true to its name with the urban decay, but such is the price for Liberalism.
So in your mind workers can only thrive if they're willing to work for peanuts and keep their mouths shut an do as their told. In other words workers can only thrive if they don't thrive.

Well even cap-in-hand southerners can't work as cheap as Chinese and we're seeing the jobs that fled the north now flee the south such as the furniture business. And the unionized northern worker had a window of high wages that allowed him to send his kids to college. I sent both my daughters to the University of Illinois, I paid every nickel of it. Non union southern workers aren't getting that window. Yankees work harder too so the southerner has to work considerably cheaper, and he does. Talent chases money in the blue collar world as well as in the white collar world; that means blue collar talent tends to find itself in the higher paid union jobs leaving the less talented and less motivated to work non-union.

The southern cost of living is only lower with regards to taxes and housing. Taxes are low so schools and social services are generally lousy. Housing is cheaper because----the guys building houses make less money. Maybe a good deal for me and you but NOT for carpenters and roofers.

Last edited by Irishtom29; 06-17-2008 at 01:45 PM..
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:32 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,750,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, that's something to look forward to! I'm not sure if I follow that logic, anyway.
The forks of the Ohio and the strait connecting Lake Huron with Lake Erie are always gonna be sensible places for cities. Same with Chicago on the portage between the Great Lakes and Mississippi valley. New York will always be a good harbor. Trade routes.

On the other hand many cities are in places that no longer have intrinsic value, it's just that people used to go there for reasons such as mining and now people like the climate and such and are used to a city being there. But someday when things collapse they'll be among the first places abandoned.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
3,742 posts, read 6,904,816 times
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Some parts of the Rust Belt are improving. St. Louis and Milwaukee are both on the rebound, although both have a long way to go to get back to the way they once were.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:33 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
The forks of the Ohio and the strait connecting Lake Huron with Lake Erie are always gonna be sensible places for cities. Same with Chicago on the portage between the Great Lakes and Mississippi valley. New York will always be a good harbor. Trade routes.

On the other hand many cities are in places that no longer have intrinsic value, it's just that people used to go there for reasons such as mining and now people like the climate and such and are used to a city being there. But someday when things collapse they'll be among the first places abandoned.
Perhaps you can explain this a little better, I still don't quite understand. If you are talking about water routes, yes, you are correct. But much trade is conducted by air these days, or overland by truck. Now you're going to say the price of gasoline is going up, up, up. But the rising price of oil affects all transport, not just road and air travel. I don't know what you mean about cities with no intrinsic value. Maybe you could give some examples of such cities. One reason these cities lost population is the climate. What's wrong with wanting to live in a decent climate?
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