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Old 10-23-2017, 12:26 PM
 
387 posts, read 368,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Pittsburgh is certainly not a ghost town, its kind of booming. There are some ghost towns in the nearby former mill towns of the Mon valley, though.
Maybe not yet but it could become one if it continues to suffer from population erosion, and yes Pittsburgh still suffers from population erosion, and no Iím not making that one up. Pittsburghís comeback is yet to become a reality. And like I said before Pittsburgh as well as many other Rust Belt cities would have to regain lost population in order to truly make a comeback. Make no mistake, Iím giving you straight facts.
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Old 10-23-2017, 12:46 PM
 
11,171 posts, read 22,361,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
All of them are dying in some regard. You see if it wasnít for all the deindustrialization in the first place then every single Rust Belt city would be doing much better. For example if Detroit didnít shut down itís car factories, it would be doing much better, or if Pittsburgh and Gary didnít shut down its steel mills, it would be doing much better, or if Akron didnít shut down its tire factories, it would be doing much better, or if Muncie didnít shut down its glass factories, it would be doing much better. You obviously fail to realize that deindustrialization has destroyed the U.S. economy and now the economy is at its worst these days.
Gary produces more steel today than at any time in its history. Detroit and Michigan still crank out millions of cars pear year.

It was automation that hit those two cities, not just closing down of manufacturing.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:01 PM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,458,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
Maybe not yet but it could become one if it continues to suffer from population erosion, and yes Pittsburgh still suffers from population erosion, and no I’m not making that one up. Pittsburgh’s comeback is yet to become a reality. And like I said before Pittsburgh as well as many other Rust Belt cities would have to regain lost population in order to truly make a comeback. Make no mistake, I’m giving you straight facts.
I already know the population facts, thanks. But the facts you're missing are it's become a lot younger and wealthier as the generations passed. Allegheny county used to be the oldest county in the nation due to having a hollowed out population in the 20-50 age range after the steel bust in the 80s. That means it is already on a trajectory to get back to population gains soon. As of now the population of the city is stable, and the GDP has increased nicely since 2010.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:23 PM
 
387 posts, read 368,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Gary produces more steel today than at any time in its history. Detroit and Michigan still crank out millions of cars pear year.

It was automation that hit those two cities, not just closing down of manufacturing.
The cities started declining before automation took effect.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:55 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 3,485,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Gary produces more steel today than at any time in its history. Detroit and Michigan still crank out millions of cars pear year.

It was automation that hit those two cities, not just closing down of manufacturing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
The cities started declining before automation took effect.
Detroit's decline has less to do with decline in manufacturing, and more to do with white flight and political warfare with it's suburbs. It's a common misconception made by people who are not super familiar with the situation. If Detroit's losses were truly due to the decline of its signature industry, the surrounding region should have suffered mimicking losses and did not. Had Detroit not been walled off and economically choked by it's suburbs the conversation here would be very different. Detroit didn't "shut down" it's car making. Most of those jobs simply shifted to Detroit's suburbs. Over the last 50 years as manufacturing jobs shift south, and out of the country, the R&D, administrative, and corporate positions surrounding the automotive industry trippled. The bulk of those types of jobs are still located in suburban Detroit, and increasing moving back to Detroit itself.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:56 PM
 
387 posts, read 368,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
I already know the population facts, thanks. But the facts you're missing are it's become a lot younger and wealthier as the generations passed. Allegheny county used to be the oldest county in the nation due to having a hollowed out population in the 20-50 age range after the steel bust in the 80s. That means it is already on a trajectory to get back to population gains soon. As of now the population of the city is stable, and the GDP has increased nicely since 2010.
Yet that begs one question. Will Pittsburgh ever regain its population? So far that hasnít happened.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,716 posts, read 7,666,304 times
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A lot of the MSAs in these areas are still as large as they were a couple decades ago. If we could get these folks to abandon their cookie cutter suburbs and move back into the cities, things would look so much better, even if overall MSA population stayed the same. Or even if it declined a little. But the issue in places like Detroit and Cleveland is that many areas of the city are infected with crime and homes that would need major work.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:13 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,709,147 times
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I wonder if housing units occupied might be a better measure of turnaround, given the long-term trend of shrinking household size especially among the native-born.

As in, if every home in Pittsburgh had a hipster couple in it, vs. the 1950's family of six, it's 1/3 the population, but might have "turned around" into a viable economic unit for the new century.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Brookline
2,666 posts, read 2,033,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
I wonder if housing units occupied might be a better measure of turnaround, given the long-term trend of shrinking household size especially among the native-born.

As in, if every home in Pittsburgh had a hipster couple in it, vs. the 1950's family of six, it's 1/3 the population, but might have "turned around" into a viable economic unit for the new century.
Exactly. My house is just me and my dog, where it used to be 5 people. The first 5 houses on my block are occupied by only 8 people, the largest family having 3 people in it.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:31 PM
 
3,215 posts, read 1,541,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPetty View Post
I certainly wouldnít doubt any of the revitalization youíve mentioned, but how I look at it is that Clevelandís comeback has yet to become a reality. You see Cleveland still suffers from population erosion. Not just for the city proper, but for the whole metro area as well. Cleveland isnít going to make a comeback with an eroding population.
Northern states and cities still loading or very modest gains..... does not mean IN DECLINE YET. Racial changes like Black-flight out of some cities.... is even ongoing. Chicago lost 200,000 African-Americans last decade and each year it continues.

This year its Latino population rose enough to become the second largest racial group after White. It is a two-tiered city with rising or steady White population, rising Asian and Latinos. It's transitioning a city to a more higher-educated population with a Booming Core outward.

Certainly the city has issues. But to visit the booming segment ..... it is clearly seen as vibrant a it comes.

Other cities in the Midwest .... might not be building the new towers like Chicago. But a good segment of their city's. Are renewing what it has. A Core can renew without building new. The older becomes more as new again and re-purposed for a changing city dynamics.

Corporate America..... still finds mere expansions in lower corporate tax states and income taxes. To their advantage. So many Northerners MUST MOVE WHERE THEY STEER GROWTH. But it may not last forever.

Much of Europe isn't growing. The influx of recent refugees. Isn't booming a new population gain. Just having less children is keeping population growth low. But new still gets built. Some cities as ours in the states like London..... get plenty of Chinese and other Asian investment. That helps them greatly I'm sure.

Same with our cities getting the most international investing. Most Northern cities have a well built more urban stock of housing to renew and maintain as quality homes.

A city like Houston? Already has 50s 60s neighborhoods as throwaway ranch homes. Too simple, lower quality or the environment can be less kind to them in aging. You see less housing as throwaway up north..... unless too blighted already.

Without immigration..... even the US would have very slow growth. Less people paying into SS in the future? Won't help in solvency. Northern cities see much less new sprawl as the fast growing sunbelt cities .... still are growing less dense .... despite inner-loop core parts adding denser replacement infill.
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