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Old 06-02-2010, 06:34 PM
 
56,511 posts, read 80,803,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
There is a gap in growth patterns between the Atlantic Coast states and Texas that most of the areas are growing not much more or even less in cases than the Rust Belt. (Nashville becoming big exception here)
I would add Huntsville AL, Chattanooga TN and Knoxville TN as exceptions too.
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I would add Huntsville AL, Chattanooga TN and Knoxville TN as exceptions too.
I was just thinking that as well. I think the growth is generally moving west from GA and NC over time. Another guess as to a new growth in the coming years is the Auburn-Opelika AL area.

I was thinking about long term growth rates in the Rust Belt and expanding out Midwest in general is that growth rates will start increasing first along the Southern and Western edges of the region. Also have to note that overall growth rates I am talking about is relative to national growth rate since that is likely to get smaller over time.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:07 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,945,732 times
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We have too many businessmen and not enough scientists or engineers in this country, and we're losing our innovative edge as a result. We need an equal ratio of scientists and engineers to be innovative, and businessmen to figure out ways to make a profit from innovation. Right now, though, the businessmen are dominating the relationship.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
We have too many businessmen and not enough scientists or engineers in this country, and we're losing our innovative edge as a result. We need an equal ratio of scientists and engineers to be innovative, and businessmen to figure out ways to make a profit from innovation. Right now, though, the businessmen are dominating the relationship.
Well blame sometimes the anti-intellecualism that occurs at times.
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Old 06-03-2010, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV
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Yes and no. The "Rust Belt" itself is dead...dead, dead, dead and never coming back. These manufacturing cities will never see the light of day again in wake of their respective industry-based collapses and past success. However, several cities have/will reinvent themselves and are already seeing something of a rebound in terms of quality of life/economy/public perception. Chicago will always be Chicago...but some Rust Belt cities like Pittsburgh and Milwaukee, along with a few borderline Rust Belt cities like Baltimore and Cincinatti, have improved greatly over the last decade and successfully reinvented themselves both economically and socially. I'd toss Minneapolis/St. Paul in there too, but I don't think either were actually Rust Belt cities and Minneapolis certainly has done well over the decades. Same applies for Indy/Ft. Wayne but I dunno if either were Rust Belt in the truest sense. St. Louis is also gaining population and improving, but I don't think it's quite there yet.

However...cities and regions like Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, Youngstown, Erie, all of WV but Morgantown and the Eastern Panhandle/DC-link, Western PA outside of Pittsburgh's metro, Northern Ohio, etc are either crawling along(Cleveland), doomed(Detroit), or just flat-out dead, desolate, and crumbling(Wheeling WV, Youngstown OH, Johnstown PA). I think that the "Rust Belt" term is a bit outdated when talking about a few cities, again...I'd break things down into new groups of similar cities like Pittsburgh/Cincinatti/Louisville, Milwaukee/Minneapolis/St. Louis/Indianapolis, Baltimore/Philly/D.C./Boston/NY, etc. The "Rust Belt" moniker only really seems to fit Cleveland/Buffalo/Detroit/etc at this point in my oppinion. Aside from their pasts, those three don't really have much of anything in common with their present day "Rust Belt" counterparts and need a lot of work.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:52 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,115,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues View Post
Yes and no. The "Rust Belt" itself is dead...dead, dead, dead and never coming back. These manufacturing cities will never see the light of day again in wake of their respective industry-based collapses and past success. However, several cities have/will reinvent themselves and are already seeing something of a rebound in terms of quality of life/economy/public perception. Chicago will always be Chicago...but some Rust Belt cities like Pittsburgh and Milwaukee, along with a few borderline Rust Belt cities like Baltimore and Cincinatti, have improved greatly over the last decade and successfully reinvented themselves both economically and socially. I'd toss Minneapolis/St. Paul in there too, but I don't think either were actually Rust Belt cities and Minneapolis certainly has done well over the decades. Same applies for Indy/Ft. Wayne but I dunno if either were Rust Belt in the truest sense. St. Louis is also gaining population and improving, but I don't think it's quite there yet.

However...cities and regions like Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, Youngstown, Erie, all of WV but Morgantown and the Eastern Panhandle/DC-link, Western PA outside of Pittsburgh's metro, Northern Ohio, etc are either crawling along(Cleveland), doomed(Detroit), or just flat-out dead, desolate, and crumbling(Wheeling WV, Youngstown OH, Johnstown PA). I think that the "Rust Belt" term is a bit outdated when talking about a few cities, again...I'd break things down into new groups of similar cities like Pittsburgh/Cincinatti/Louisville, Milwaukee/Minneapolis/St. Louis/Indianapolis, Baltimore/Philly/D.C./Boston/NY, etc. The "Rust Belt" moniker only really seems to fit Cleveland/Buffalo/Detroit/etc at this point in my oppinion. Aside from their pasts, those three don't really have much of anything in common with their present day "Rust Belt" counterparts and need a lot of work.
Half of the problem is many of the people think that the jobs will return someday if they just dig their heels in. Even if the manufacturing returned many of the jobs won't due to mechanization requiring less people to do the same work. The more entrenched the mentality is the worse off an area seems to be. Admitting you have to change is often the first step on a recovery.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The Lakes
2,372 posts, read 4,449,496 times
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A lot of us are open to change, but in a different direction. We don't want to become "hip" liberal strongholds with cookie cutter subdivisions. A lot of us pride ourselves on our strong working-man history. My family goes back 5 generations in both directions as either being high ranking military officers or working in factories. I certainly would hate to see such a rich city in history as Detroit invaded by the same sort who have invaded Denver, Austin, Atlanta, etc.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Morgantown, WV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
Half of the problem is many of the people think that the jobs will return someday if they just dig their heels in. Even if the manufacturing returned many of the jobs won't due to mechanization requiring less people to do the same work. The more entrenched the mentality is the worse off an area seems to be. Admitting you have to change is often the first step on a recovery.
Pittsburgh is the poster child for that...on one hand, you have disgruntled old fogies that oppose any sort of change and believe that the steel and coal industries will come back.."you can't tear down that ol' steel mill and build a wharf!!! 5 generations of us Johnsons used to work in that building and I'll be d@mned if it goes!!!" type of stuff. And on the other side, you have everybody who's involved with Pittsburgh's emergence in the tech/green/healthcare/education industries who work to change and modernize the city, more or less the present day 20-30 something crowd. Perfect example...we're opening a new arena next year and tearing down our old one. Keeping in mind that Yankee Stadium, Tiger Stadium, Texas Stadium, etc have all been torn down and demolished..we actually have swarms of locals who are fighting to keep Mellon Arena as a shrine to the Penguins and their whopping 3 Stanley Cups in 50-some years as a team. Plans for the site literally involve sculpting a new section of downtown with mixed-use development and essentially creating an entirely new "uptown" district on the old arena site...this is huge news for a city that's been stagnant for decades, yet people are actually opposing this. We're talking the potential for a huge project that could spark new towers, entertainment districts, urban housing, etc...basically a "modern" and cutting edge section of Pittsburgh to go with our cool historical city, and people are unhappy about that because it means tearing down an arena that we no longer need.

This is a horrible thing to say, but most Rust Belt cities will not truly turn the corner until past generations die off and are replaced with younger, open-minded people. Pittsburgh was a wasteland for decades until recent years, just watch what happens to it over the next 5-15 years as younger generations gain back control of the city and my point will be more than proven. Downsizing is the best thing that could have possibly happened, we've become more educated and progressive as a result...sad to say, but it's the truth. Cincinatti is hitting that point right now by the looks of it and should be a good example of an older city changing during the next decade through increased youth influence and economy change. It's important to remember working-class roots and whatnot...but things are just different these days, and that's what's hurting most of these cities as they cling on to the past.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:13 AM
 
11,171 posts, read 22,361,018 times
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Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
You're leaving out Milwaukee, Duluth, Baltimore, Peoria, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Akron, Youngstown, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Erie and other major cities that've been hit hard by the manufacturing bust.
Ok, throw in those central cities to my original amount as well except Milwaukee, Grand Rapids and Baltimore. Baltimore had other issues, but it's not really a rust belt city, or in the region. Milwaukee had issues like Pittsburgh, etc. - but it's hardly on any level of Detroit or Cleveland. Milwaukee is actually doing pretty well, and never fell as hard as other cities. Grand Rapids has been booming pretty well since the 1990's. It's certainly the shining star of Michigan really - and not a rust belt place.

Duluth, Peoria, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Akron, Youngstown, Lansing, Erie.

Those central areas have around 1,400,000 people. The prior places I listed had a population of 1,500,000 people.

That's 3 million people living in the central cities within a region (larger now, I was noting the Midwest, now we're bringing in Penn. and Upstate NY) of tens of millions.

It's around 3% of the total population. Of course there are multiple smaller areas within those states that are "rust belt" as well, but overall a pretty vast majority of people within the dreaded "RUST BELT" regions do not live in depressed run down inner city or dead areas. Lots of people left those areas already, and that's the reason they are so poor today. Most people live in the much healthier and upbeat suburbs, or places like Chicago, Indy, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Des Moines, Madison, Omaha, Columbus, etc. that are doing ok given the economy.

Anyway, blah blah. Just a random comment that people hear Rust Belt, and they make it come off like it's this homogeneous area of tens of thousands of square miles where everything is run down and depressing/sad.

There are points within these regions that are like that, but it's far far far from widespread/universal.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:17 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,115,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues View Post
Pittsburgh is the poster child for that...on one hand, you have disgruntled old fogies that oppose any sort of change and believe that the steel and coal industries will come back.."you can't tear down that ol' steel mill and build a wharf!!! 5 generations of us Johnsons used to work in that building and I'll be d@mned if it goes!!!" type of stuff. And on the other side, you have everybody who's involved with Pittsburgh's emergence in the tech/green/healthcare/education industries who work to change and modernize the city, more or less the present day 20-30 something crowd. Perfect example...we're opening a new arena next year and tearing down our old one. Keeping in mind that Yankee Stadium, Tiger Stadium, Texas Stadium, etc have all been torn down and demolished..we actually have swarms of locals who are fighting to keep Mellon Arena as a shrine to the Penguins and their whopping 3 Stanley Cups in 50-some years as a team. Plans for the site literally involve sculpting a new section of downtown with mixed-use development and essentially creating an entirely new "uptown" district on the old arena site...this is huge news for a city that's been stagnant for decades, yet people are actually opposing this. We're talking the potential for a huge project that could spark new towers, entertainment districts, urban housing, etc...basically a "modern" and cutting edge section of Pittsburgh to go with our cool historical city, and people are unhappy about that because it means tearing down an arena that we no longer need.

This is a horrible thing to say, but most Rust Belt cities will not truly turn the corner until past generations die off and are replaced with younger, open-minded people. Pittsburgh was a wasteland for decades until recent years, just watch what happens to it over the next 5-15 years as younger generations gain back control of the city and my point will be more than proven. Downsizing is the best thing that could have possibly happened, we've become more educated and progressive as a result...sad to say, but it's the truth. Cincinatti is hitting that point right now by the looks of it and should be a good example of an older city changing during the next decade through increased youth influence and economy change. It's important to remember working-class roots and whatnot...but things are just different these days, and that's what's hurting most of these cities.
St. Louis has experienced the exact same thing the last decade involving generation change being what causes things to turn around. I think something the older people forget as well that many younger people don't want to do what they did to start with. Actually I am thinking a lot of the cities that are turning around are going to have the problem of a declining total workforce even if population grows. Mainly due to the upcoming retirement of baby-boomers (the last generation IMHO that are the problem in most cases) and not as many entering a workforce. It could cause particularly in certain fields of a labor shortage. (ironically blue-collar jobs might be hard hit on this)
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