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Old 06-18-2008, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,057,185 times
Reputation: 4482

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canine*Castle View Post
Being embarrassed to ride the bus or train is ridiculous but as you say, quite true. Apparently those people aren't very confident with themselves to let such a ridiculous thing embarrass them. I remember once many years ago in CA, it was pouring down rain and my mom had to take me to school in a taxi cab because she didn't drive. My dad was at work. I must admit as a twelve year old, I was embarrassed, but I've grown up since then.

I wonder if walking makes people embarrassed as well. I have neighbors who live 500 feet from relatives and either drive to their homes via car, golf cart, 3-wheeler, or riding mower. They may live 1/2 block from their mailbox but do they walk, no, they jump in the car or one of the other gas drinkers. Fat America....this is bizarre to me.

Where I work, people will drive from building to building because they're too lazy to walk. Multiply that times many people in the country and gas prices aren't likely to go down. You just can't fix stupid!!
I get ridiculed for sometimes riding a bike to work, and there is an office complex 200 feet from my apartment complex that people in my complex work at, but most of them DRIVE. I understand what you are saying. People need to learn to conserve, but oil prices are now at such a level our economy will soon topple like a house of cards. As unlikely as it is, I pray that the bubble gets popped after Sunday's meeting in Saudi Arabia. I work for a struggling retailer, and if these oil prices dont come down soon, I will most likely be out of a job by the end of the year.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:30 AM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,061,819 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
Ok, I'm going to give the, "raise the price" people some credit because I think I understand what at least some of them are getting at.

As Americans, we hate change. We love to consume. Overall, we're not really into reusing, recycling, or conserving - although in recent times SOME of us are getting a bit better at the idea of it all. We've been putzing along for decades with very cheap prices of gas, with very large guzzling cars, and allowed the Middle East to control our traveling consumption mentality along the way.

Let's be honest - Americans do not change unless they are forced to change. C'mon... people even refuse to use the dollar coins every time they try to come out with them. Why? Because they keep printing the paper bills and don't force people to switch to the coins. Hell, if we can't get the hang of using a dollar coin, I mean, geez.

Ok, so now gas prices go nuts. Suddenly - we see change. People are going out and trading in the huge SUVs for more fuel efficient models of cars. People are asking for Hybrids, and asking for Hydrogen and other fuel-source vehicles to be built NOW. People are staying at home more and not hitting the malls 3 times a week to buy made-in-China junk they don't really need. They're telling their kids they need to cut down the 8 exracurricular activities they're used to being taxied around for, and only pick one or two now (gasp - the concept!). Recent reports say that more people rode public transit so far this year than have done it since 1957! Even our "Bubba" Governor here in Georgia who has publicly stated in the past that he could care less about transit, has just recently started setting money aside to start a commuter rail system in the Atlanta area (yes, hell hath frozen over). Heck, people are even starting to ask about solar panels for their homes and wind energy as they get mad and now WANT to ween our country from the ball-grip the Middle East has had us in.

This is NOT bad. The longer the gas prices stay high, the more people will break their bad consumer habits, and start to think in a new, and yes better, way. The higher the gas prices get, the quicker they think differently and change those habits. Then, AFTER they've adopted their new way of life, if the prices drop, they KEEP those good habits and basically say, "screw off" to the Middle East for good.

Ok Ok, yes, there is a domino effect and it's not good. Jobs are being lost, tourism gets hurt (except maybe more localized tourism spots as people stay closer to home). Restaurants and stores hurt because people use their old "blow-it money" on gas now... I agree. There are definately a lot of pains involved and there will be casualties. My personal opinion is that I hope prices stay up for a while longer. Not forever. Not for years. Just long enough to get most of us off our lazy mental asses and start permanently changing our consumer/consumption/wasteful habits, and for us to have alternate fuel vehicles available in mass production for the public. I understand both sides - both have valid points.
I agree with most of what you have said, but want to make a couple points: First, I am less optimistic than you are that if high gas prices regress to lower levels in the future Americans will have broken their gas guzzling habits. I believe that if the gas prices come down, there will suddenly be a new market for SUVs and other gas guzzlers, many people will stop car pooling, riding transit, bicycling, buying scooters, walking, etc.

Second, RE: the transit statistic, while we may now have the same number of transit riders as we did in 1957, we also have many more people in our country than in 1957. In other words, the number of people who DON'T use transit is much higher than it was in 1957.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:32 AM
 
5,728 posts, read 9,098,362 times
Reputation: 2470
The first of many to come! Over 100 miles on a single charge and it's capable of reaching highway speeds. It costs about one dollar a day to recharge.

ZAP Alias | ZAP Electric Cars | Green Electric Car | Ride The Future
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
7,946 posts, read 15,057,185 times
Reputation: 4482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
I agree with most of what you have said, but want to make a couple points: First, I am less optimistic than you are that if high gas prices regress to lower levels in the future Americans will have broken their gas guzzling habits. I believe that if the gas prices come down, there will suddenly be a new market for SUVs and other gas guzzlers, many people will stop car pooling, riding transit, bicycling, buying scooters, walking, etc.

Second, RE: the transit statistic, while we may now have the same number of transit riders as we did in 1957, we also have many more people in our country than in 1957. In other words, the number of people who DON'T use transit is much higher than it was in 1957.
I dont understand how so many liberals believe that a complete collapse of the consumer economy is a good thing for America. We exported all our manufacturing jobs. What will absorb all the unemployed from the retail sector? You have to think short term. America WILL NOT be a good place to live if oil prices continue their upward trend. Think about how this will effect people before you say this is a good thing.
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Old 06-18-2008, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Louisiana and Pennsylvania
2,756 posts, read 5,327,787 times
Reputation: 2696
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
People who suggest increasing the gas prices are likely either teenagers living at home with their parents so they have no worries or they have no idea how the economy works. This economy is on the verge of collapse because of $4 gas. People no longer have disposable income to spend at the mall or at restaurants so those places are starting to drop like flies. Some may think thats good, but remember all the jobs that are being lost. As retailers go, manufacturers are next, and its just a domino effect. Don't forget the tourist industry. Higher gas prices are NOT a good thing. Its in our nation's best intrest for them to get down into the $2.50-$3 level. High enough that everybody isn't rushing out to buy a Hummer but low enough that people still have some disposable income.

Edit: Just checked his profile and it looks like hes a high school kid. You have no right to wish for higher gas prices when mommy and daddy supply all your needs on a silver platter.
Exactly..Well said..And the domino effect is becoming more and more apparent each day in many aspects.
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Old 06-18-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in Texas
5,232 posts, read 11,683,726 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I get ridiculed for sometimes riding a bike to work, and there is an office complex 200 feet from my apartment complex that people in my complex work at, but most of them DRIVE. I understand what you are saying. People need to learn to conserve, but oil prices are now at such a level our economy will soon topple like a house of cards. As unlikely as it is, I pray that the bubble gets popped after Sunday's meeting in Saudi Arabia. I work for a struggling retailer, and if these oil prices dont come down soon, I will most likely be out of a job by the end of the year.
Good for you and the bike riding, and it's such good exercise and great for your health. Your cocky co-workers are probably just jealous. 200 feet to work and people drive. This is just totally unbelievable and more than ridiculous, just like my neighbors and so many others I know.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Camelot
353 posts, read 1,552,307 times
Reputation: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
I stopped reading at this point. I don't fall for the "leftest", "elitist", and "agenda" crap, sorry. Hurry - you're late for the McCain fund raiser.
That is your problem. You don't want to listen to anything contradicts you because you don't want to be wrong. The environmental and energy policies put in place by anti-oil democrats is why we are paying $4+ per gallon. Go hide your head in middle eastern sand. When you are confronted with the truth and you are proven wrong you, along with all the anti-american leftists just drop out of the discussion. You know you are wrong and don't want to be embarrassed further.

By the way, I am voting for Libertarian Bob Barr.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Ne View Post
Well, did you know oil shale costs more to process than you can to sell right now, so gas prices would be even higher.
Did you know that as the shale industry builds up and more research and development is done and more oil is produced from shale the price will drop. That is simple economics. What did DVD players cost 10 years ago? How about today?
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Camelot
353 posts, read 1,552,307 times
Reputation: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
I dont understand how so many liberals believe that a complete collapse of the consumer economy is a good thing for America. We exported all our manufacturing jobs. What will absorb all the unemployed from the retail sector? You have to think short term. America WILL NOT be a good place to live if oil prices continue their upward trend. Think about how this will effect people before you say this is a good thing.
Your opinion is refreshing!

These people are elitist who don't care about anyone except themselves. Their understanding of American economics is not an understanding, it is just a summarization of liberal talking points. They move from one point to the next and don't want to stop and attempt to convince anyone why to believe them. If someone doesn't agree with them they are cast aside as a republican wacko. They want to hide their head in the sand and not defend the intrinsically socialist viewpoints they want to be imposed on America. Instead of answering those questions they end the discussion. I guess I would too if I had no substance behind my arguement.
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Old 06-18-2008, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
10,425 posts, read 44,679,698 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILWRadio View Post
The first of many to come! Over 100 miles on a single charge and it's capable of reaching highway speeds. It costs about one dollar a day to recharge.

ZAP Alias | ZAP Electric Cars | Green Electric Car | Ride The Future
2 things:

Do you know anyone who would drive something so grossly ugly as that car?

By the time I spend $33,000 for a junk box like that just to save gas, I could buy a nice used GM or Ford car for $8,000 and have $25,000 left to spend on gas which would last me many many many years.

Ok a 3rd thing: What would happen if you drove that thing and parked it in a parking lot? I can invision bunches of idiots coming up to me asking questions. I can invision people touching it while I was not looking. I can guarantee some one stealing it.

So I ask........why bother?
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Old 06-18-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Chariton, Iowa
681 posts, read 2,773,308 times
Reputation: 446
You might drive something like that if you had a lot of disposable income and cared very deeply (perhaps irrationally so) about the environment. You'd also have to be someone who didn't mind, or even enjoyed the parking-lot attention and question-and-answer from friends and strangers alike.

But people wouldn't steal it. It can't be resold or chop-shopped, and it's not really a joy-ride machine.

I heard on the radio, I can't remember who said it or where, that the tipping point for all-electric cars was three factors.
  • 1. Comparable price to gasoline cars. Perhaps a bit more expensive, like the Prius.
  • 2. Gets 300 miles to the charge.
  • 3. Quick charges in 20 minutes.
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