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Old 06-20-2008, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
6,749 posts, read 19,950,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
There are plenty of Marylanders and Missourians who'd dispute your assertion. Personally I consider those states "southernish".
You consider Maryland and Missouri but not Kentucky?

 
Old 06-20-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: New England & The Maritimes
2,116 posts, read 4,201,666 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Boston also has a reputation for its tough street culture, made famous in movies like The Departed and Gone Baby Gone and Good Will Hunting.
Tom Lennox, you never fail to impress me.
 
Old 06-20-2008, 06:17 PM
 
835 posts, read 2,083,880 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueeyes30 View Post
Here's a another source.
[SIZE=3]http://www.morganquitno.com/dangsaf07.htm[/SIZE]
1" is Safest, "50" is Most Dangerous

Edited: The list didn't come out right when I tried to paste, but this particular listed 3 western states as the top 3.

But even on this list, the deep south still ranks higher than average.
Wow, South Carolina ranks at 45.

Still, I'm less afraid here than in NYC or Chicago.
 
Old 06-20-2008, 06:36 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,746,338 times
Reputation: 10164
Quote:
Originally Posted by missymomof3 View Post
You consider Maryland and Missouri but not Kentucky?
Sure Kentucky is southern, it just isn't as violent as other southern states.
 
Old 06-20-2008, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,285,896 times
Reputation: 3827
Quote:
Originally Posted by guestposter24 View Post
Wow, South Carolina ranks at 45.

Still, I'm less afraid here than in NYC or Chicago.
Maybe you should be more afraid.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Oak Park, IL
5,522 posts, read 12,285,896 times
Reputation: 3827
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Well, Irishtom, your general disdain and contempt for the South is pretty much a matter of record. The only thing I can say is that you are not terribly missed down here!

But neither here nor there, and not necessarily replying directly to you -- although in some cases it does -- I do want to make a few points directly or indirectly related to the general topic....

For one, the "murder rate" of any given place does not necessarily translate into how dangerous a place is to live. And definitely not how "civilized" it might or might not be.

Sukwoo noted earlier (and correctly) the "honor culture" which had always existed in the South. (Which I am going to define -- for my point -- as generally the Old Confederate states plus Kentucky, West Virginia and Oklahoma.) I hasten to add, by the way, I am NOT implying that Sukwoo will support anything which follows. Almost certainly not in fact. Only that I agree very much with the premise...which might or might not draw opposite conclusions!

Anyway, far as murder rate goes, it is statistically true that the rate is higher in Southern states. The thing is, "murder" has degrees in legal terms. It can range anywhere from voluntary manslaughter to First degree (Capital) murder.

Many of the killings which take place in the Southern states are of the type the average person has little to fear in terms of personal safety as involves the "killer".

Most can be traced to encounters in, say, a bar, in which there is no way to retreat without disgracing oneself. And yeah, lovers triangles. Or where it comes down to where there is little doubt a family member is in danger (i.e. your daughter or wife being stalked) and the law can do nothing about it. Or defend their homes and property. Or etc. etc. It is within an understood social code, so to speak.

Point is, the people who commit THIS type killing are not really to be feared in the sense they are going to harm "you" personally. Almost always most express remorse and wish it had not been the way it was and/or happened. As individuals, they are the type who will help you out on the highway when your car breaks down, or loan you a garden hose.

This very fact is, IMHO, a good reason why stranger on stranger crimes (when taking into account the politically incorrect demographic factors) are, if not actually less, at least no different, in Southern states/cities as compared to the northern/far western counterparts.

To put is another way, "civilized" can mean different things in different cultures. And invariably, it will involve a value judgement to some degree. Down Here, being civilized is just taken for granted. And borne out totally by the fact so many from other regions are moving in droves down here...
Perhaps there is some truth to this. On the other hand, I wouldn't be entirely sanguine about these "honor killings." Slights to one's sense of honor can be unintentional or misperceived. Add in alcohol, and you potentially get a lot of excess homicide. Just because the killer regrets their actions, doesn't really do much good for the victim.

I'm not really using this point to "beat up" on the South, to a certain extent, the code of honor is admirable, but like all things, when taken to extremes can have some negative consequences.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
6,749 posts, read 19,950,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Sure Kentucky is southern, it just isn't as violent as other southern states.
That's because we are better at looking innocent " I dunno officer, last I saw him he was hking near a cliff and the next thing I knew he was gone....." while batting eyelashes and looking misty eyed......
 
Old 06-21-2008, 11:59 AM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,112,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukwoo View Post
I'm not really using this point to "beat up" on the South, to a certain extent, the code of honor is admirable, but like all things, when taken to extremes can have some negative consequences.
And I didn't take it that way (beating up on the South, that is! ). Anyway, your points are good ones and acknowleged. The only point I was really trying to make was that the "murder rate" in a given locale (city or state) does not necessarily translate into it being a terribly dangerous place to live. It CAN be, of course...often is...but the relevant factor is how many of the murders are stranger on stranger type (generally commited during the commision of another felony, such as armed robbery, etc.).

On the honor culture thing, it reminds me (something always reminds me of something ) of an actual study once using actual contrived situations as well as questionaires. Here is a link to it:

Culture of Honor: The Psychology of ... - Google Book Search

I read it once, but it was quite a few years ago, so don't recall all the details. Anyway, going from memory, there was one particular "question" of participants that I found particularly interesting. Again, it was a while back so not sure if I have it down precisely, but basically it went like this:

You are in a game (cards, board, pool, etc) with a someone and dispute arises in which the other calls you an insulting name (SOB, cheat, liar, etc) and strikes a blow. Regardless of who wins the subsequent fight (if there is one), the person later apologizes for the incident. The question is: Which would you find harder to forgive? The insult or the punch?

Southerners were much more likely than non-Southerners to say the insult. I agree with this...and in asking the same question to friends/family, the same answer was almost always given. That is, the insult would sting more.

Anyway, kinda interesting I thought. And would wonder if others here might have an answer to it...?

Quote:
IrishTom wrote: Hey TexReb, good post. Thoughtful and informative. Thanks.
Thanks for your kind words. Even though some of your posts ala' personal opinion (which we are all entitled to) on the South make my hackles rise , you are objective, civil and fair-minded in a discussion/debate! That is appreciated.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 12:26 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,620,301 times
Reputation: 1264
Off topic but...when I lived in PA we considered Delaware-south of the Mason-Dixon line as southern. However, down here in Mississippi Delaware is not considered to be in the South. Is it or is it not a southern state? What makes a state southern? I always thought it was the Mason-Dixon line?
 
Old 06-21-2008, 12:32 PM
 
Location: moving again
4,382 posts, read 15,321,803 times
Reputation: 1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama View Post
Off topic but...when I lived in PA we considered Delaware-south of the Mason-Dixon line as southern. However, down here in Mississippi Delaware is not considered to be in the South. Is it or is it not a southern state? What makes a state southern? I always thought it was the Mason-Dixon line?
Today, Culture divides the north and the south. It used to be divided by a fake line, but not anymore. Both Delaware and Maryland are northern, but have southern parts, because in the past they were with out a doubt southern. The cultural boundary of the north and south is where the DC metro extends into Virginia. So NOVA is northern and virtually everything below it is southern
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