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Moving: Portland, Annapolis homes for sale, moving companies, nationwide movers, jobs market.

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Old 06-19-2008, 11:21 PM
 
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MissMeaMea - these past few posters have been right on.

Go where you'll be happy.
Go where you'll both be able to make a living.
And keep in mind that kids adapt quickly.

I'd just strongly urge you to keep communicating with your husband.

(Also - if husband is saying no to Portland because of the poor job market, why not Seattle? It's closeby to Portland, but has a stronger economy.)
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Old 06-20-2008, 04:32 AM
 
Location: Portland, Maine
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Ultimately, it boils down to where you and your husband can find the best jobs that you will like to do. So much of our time is spent with work that it is a big consideration. If you move to Portland but have jobs that are not liked, well, your life there will be miserable regardless of the environment. Having a child, you have more financial responsibilities and it is important for your child to understand that concept.

I would apply for positions in both locals and see what is out there. That will weigh heavy in the debate. If the best fit for employment is Portland, that would be more convincing for your mate. But, if the best fit for employment is Annapolis, then compromise is in order.

I am curious as to Annapolis though. It is a very small city and chances are you would be living in a suburban area unless again, you are willing to compromise space for urban living. If I were to live in the Annapolis area, it would either be Annapolis or Baltimore. There is way to much sprawl and funk other than those two locations in the area. Not to omit Portland because once you leave the city, they also have their share of sprawl and stripmalls.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:48 AM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
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I don't know how good Annapolis is for jobs. I know several people who live and love it there, but they commute 50+ miles by car to the DC area or Baltimore. Unless you work for the state govt., the Naval Academy, or have some sort of mariner or tourist support job, I don't think the jobs are plentiful there. There isn't much in the way of public transit to the 2 big cities over there.

Another vote for not putting too much on the child's wants - outside of concerns for good schools and low crime/drug risks. He'll adapt.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:51 AM
 
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Be nice if I could figure out how to list both pages of replies on one page, so I could reference posts from page 1 as well...

Thanks for all the replies. Most of what is said echoes my own feelings and issues regarding employment, raising a child, etc. Ultimately, I know that my choice of a place to move to is Portland. I've been there before, I know the area and have friends there and friends with children my son could play with, and I think it'd be a great place for him to grow up. The financial concerns are not as important to me. I know that sounds ridiculous as a parent, and of course there are minimum living conditions that have to take care of, but my personal experience is that I am adaptable as an employee and can find work most anywhere. Conversely I think it's just as easy to fail in an area with GREAT job prospects. All depends on the situation. And I almost hate to say this because it sounds ultra-hippie-liberal and begging for a flame, but I don't want to pick our environment based on work. There are a whole set of values and stresses that go with that which I'd just as soon not see my son develop. I'd rather do with less, frankly.

To the poster who mentioned Portland's job market, I kinda want to say, sorry that you hate it there. I know what it's like. I did live there for 9 years though, and I gotta say that much of what I like about it is what you don't like, so I'll have to disagree with that. It's a big city but it's not a BIG city and I think people forget that. It's not Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc. Salaries are lower. I don't know firsthand the full extent of the slow job market because when I left that problem hadn't happened yet. Portland thrived off the tech boom and when the dot com bust happened, the job market tanked. But, Nike World Campus is out there, Intel is there, there are several Universities and hospitals in the area...I still have friends there, all of whom are happily employed in professional areas. But yeah, people are aware that they make less money there than elsewhere and that there's less job growth. Pretty much everyone I know has mentioned that it is the price they pay to enjoy the other stuff the city has to offer, and I feel the same way. I make more money out here but I have a 45 minute commute (on a good day) that is considered "normal," the cancer rate is 10 times that of the national average, and the area is so sprawled and pedestrian unfriendly that you pretty much have to drive to get anywhere. I'll muzzle myself before I really get off on a rant, but you get the idea.
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Old 06-20-2008, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Lakeland, Florida
6,971 posts, read 12,498,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmeamea View Post
Be nice if I could figure out how to list both pages of replies on one page, so I could reference posts from page 1 as well...

Thanks for all the replies. Most of what is said echoes my own feelings and issues regarding employment, raising a child, etc. Ultimately, I know that my choice of a place to move to is Portland. I've been there before, I know the area and have friends there and friends with children my son could play with, and I think it'd be a great place for him to grow up. The financial concerns are not as important to me. I know that sounds ridiculous as a parent, and of course there are minimum living conditions that have to take care of, but my personal experience is that I am adaptable as an employee and can find work most anywhere. Conversely I think it's just as easy to fail in an area with GREAT job prospects. All depends on the situation. And I almost hate to say this because it sounds ultra-hippie-liberal and begging for a flame, but I don't want to pick our environment based on work. There are a whole set of values and stresses that go with that which I'd just as soon not see my son develop. I'd rather do with less, frankly.

To the poster who mentioned Portland's job market, I kinda want to say, sorry that you hate it there. I know what it's like. I did live there for 9 years though, and I gotta say that much of what I like about it is what you don't like, so I'll have to disagree with that. It's a big city but it's not a BIG city and I think people forget that. It's not Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc. Salaries are lower. I don't know firsthand the full extent of the slow job market because when I left that problem hadn't happened yet. Portland thrived off the tech boom and when the dot com bust happened, the job market tanked. But, Nike World Campus is out there, Intel is there, there are several Universities and hospitals in the area...I still have friends there, all of whom are happily employed in professional areas. But yeah, people are aware that they make less money there than elsewhere and that there's less job growth. Pretty much everyone I know has mentioned that it is the price they pay to enjoy the other stuff the city has to offer, and I feel the same way. I make more money out here but I have a 45 minute commute (on a good day) that is considered "normal," the cancer rate is 10 times that of the national average, and the area is so sprawled and pedestrian unfriendly that you pretty much have to drive to get anywhere. I'll muzzle myself before I really get off on a rant, but you get the idea.
Good Luck.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:41 AM
 
480 posts, read 2,115,955 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmeamea View Post
Be nice if I could figure out how to list both pages of replies on one page, so I could reference posts from page 1 as well...

Thanks for all the replies. Most of what is said echoes my own feelings and issues regarding employment, raising a child, etc. Ultimately, I know that my choice of a place to move to is Portland. I've been there before, I know the area and have friends there and friends with children my son could play with, and I think it'd be a great place for him to grow up. The financial concerns are not as important to me. I know that sounds ridiculous as a parent, and of course there are minimum living conditions that have to take care of, but my personal experience is that I am adaptable as an employee and can find work most anywhere. Conversely I think it's just as easy to fail in an area with GREAT job prospects. All depends on the situation. And I almost hate to say this because it sounds ultra-hippie-liberal and begging for a flame, but I don't want to pick our environment based on work. There are a whole set of values and stresses that go with that which I'd just as soon not see my son develop. I'd rather do with less, frankly.

To the poster who mentioned Portland's job market, I kinda want to say, sorry that you hate it there. I know what it's like. I did live there for 9 years though, and I gotta say that much of what I like about it is what you don't like, so I'll have to disagree with that. It's a big city but it's not a BIG city and I think people forget that. It's not Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc. Salaries are lower. I don't know firsthand the full extent of the slow job market because when I left that problem hadn't happened yet. Portland thrived off the tech boom and when the dot com bust happened, the job market tanked. But, Nike World Campus is out there, Intel is there, there are several Universities and hospitals in the area...I still have friends there, all of whom are happily employed in professional areas. But yeah, people are aware that they make less money there than elsewhere and that there's less job growth. Pretty much everyone I know has mentioned that it is the price they pay to enjoy the other stuff the city has to offer, and I feel the same way. I make more money out here but I have a 45 minute commute (on a good day) that is considered "normal," the cancer rate is 10 times that of the national average, and the area is so sprawled and pedestrian unfriendly that you pretty much have to drive to get anywhere. I'll muzzle myself before I really get off on a rant, but you get the idea.
The first rule of salesmanship is to know your audience's values. By your original post, it is clear that you and your husband are family oriented people. This works against you, however, as all of your family connections are on the East Coast.

The other thing that comes up in your previous posts is the fact that your husband hates his job. THAT, my dear, is your point of least resistance. You need to find a way to sell Portland to your husband, and I think that employment is going to be a big part of that puzzle.

The unfortunate part of this, however, is that right now, Portland's job situation is abysmal, and things are not looking up anytime soon. My friends who are searching for jobs on Craigslist say that employers are getting hundreds of applicants for each job posting, and my friends who are looking via employment agencies are being told that most companies have implemented a hiring freeze. I don't see the job situation getting any better for another 6 months, at least.

I know you don't want to hear this, but as I am sizing the situation up, your best bet is to find your husband a great job ... and that is not likely to happen in Portland. It COULD happen (and I'd send out some resumes on his behalf if I were you), but it is not likely.

I would strongly consider Seattle as your "ace in the hole" or backup plan, as employment is much easier to find in Seattle. If he has done any type of IT work, he can just do project work for Microsoft until he figures out what he wants to do with his life. In the meantime, you can sell him on West Coast living ... and Portland would only be a 3-hour Amtrak ride away. (Perfect weekend getaway situation and a great way on "soft-selling" Portland to him ...)

Until you get him on the West Coast, however, I think he's going to dig in his heels and stick with what he knows. You've got an East Coast guy, and those types can be stubborn. The family situation complicates things as well, so have a salient argument prepared not only for your husband, but for both sides of the family. Otherwise, they will invoke family ties and you'll be outvoted.

I wish you luck, and I hope that you and your husband find what you are looking for.
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Old 06-22-2008, 02:08 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,553,682 times
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If I were your husband, I would pay more attention to your preference than my own. It's like buying a house. The man can always pick a house, but the woman is better able to pick a home.
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Old 06-22-2008, 01:33 PM
 
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Missmeamea, I'm not sure I can add any new ideas to the excellent ones above. And I'm definitely in the "Don't want to get in the middle of a domestic dispute" camp! Having said that, I've got two opinions (ya know what opinions are, right? They're like hind ends; everyboday has one and they all stink)

- I'm the son of a sailor and I moved a number of times before I graduated high school and joined the military so I could move a little more! I believe that my moving made me a lot more flexible and open to new things. And since you'll probably be staying awhile where you end up, your son will have the best of both worlds.

- I grew up in Annapolis and Anne Arundel Co. and have visited Portland often enough to know that it's one of my favorite cities. So I'm not sure what to say. I give Portland the slight edge since I prefer the West Coast to the East Coast. But I also enjoy history and Annapolis (in fact the whole East Coast) has PLENTY of historical sites for your son to see and learn about. And there are muntains and wilderness somewhat near Annapolis. (But not nearly as magnificent as Oregon/Washington has)

So, Missmeamea, don't knoiw if this'll help any but best of luck to you three!
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:34 AM
 
3,155 posts, read 9,792,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missmeamea View Post
To the poster who mentioned Portland's job market, I kinda want to say, sorry that you hate it there. I know what it's like. I did live there for 9 years though, and I gotta say that much of what I like about it is what you don't like, so I'll have to disagree with that. It's a big city but it's not a BIG city and I think people forget that. It's not Seattle, LA, San Fran, etc.
As someone who lived in Portland for 20 years (moved away one year ago) I understand your love affair with the City of Roses. I went to school in Eugene and decided to stay... making my way to Portland as most UofO grads do. There are soooo many things I love about Portland and miss. And some of them are things that are unique to Portland and I know I won't find anywhere else. But with that said there are things about my new town, Durham, NC, that I'm coming to love and are unique about here. So I was not one of these people who left Portland because I hated it or because we couldn't find a job (hubby has his own company and work anywhere).

We left in part to be closer to aging parents. BUT we also left for our children (both elementary aged). The state has terribly unstable funding for it's schools. The majority of the Portland Public Schools that offer things like Art & Music are because the parents go out and raise money to fund those positions. There are parents in Portland who a couple of years ago flipped a house and donated the profit to the school to fund programs that in must other states are funded by the state or district. Google "Alameda Home Project LLC" and " Doug Landers. This effort by these dedicated parents is commendable but IMHO it's diplorable that education has gotten to the point that it needs parents to flip houses to provide the basics for schools. My property taxes were not cheap in Portland either. (Not NJ expensive, but I wasn't getting NJ services either.)

State support of college funding was down too. It was reported that by the time my kids would be college age the state universities would be accepting more out of state students than in-state because the schools would need those extra $ to stay open.

I was politically vocal and active and fought all this for a few years. But the victories seemed to occur on a treadmill that was quickly speeding up, making it harder to just stay in place. Only about 20% of the population of Portland has school aged children, so the folks interested in this battle are dwindling.

Lastly, one last thing to consider. I only mention this because you mentioned that you are liberal. I too am of the left camp. While I lived in Portland I did not see this next point as clearly but I totally get it now that I'm looking in instead of out. In Portland there is a range of what is "acceptable" and that range tends to be on the far left. I don't see a lot of tolerance for people who think outside this range and are in the middle or to the right. (I know I'm going to get flamed for this.) While I certainly don't agree w/ the other camp, I've actually listened to them more in the last year and feel that I understand them better.

Lastly, in Portland our family was not exposed to much racially diversity. I love that my children have friends of many different ethnic backgrounds where we live now. In our old neighborhood we were all pretty much the same color and same class, due to the cost of housing.

I would recommend seriously looking at the schools, not from your friends perspectives but your own. Your friends may have a different view because they have been there for so long. Visit during the school year and visit the schools your child would attend in the neighborhood you could afford. Ask the hard questions. Even if you are going the private route, visit those schools. It's getting very hard to get into some private schools as the public school issues grow.

Good luck with your search! If we won the lottery we would live here in NC for 9 months and spend the 3 summer months in Portland. Now what a life that would be.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:56 AM
 
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Again, thanks for all the comments! I appreciate the range in all the suggestions, both cautionary and not...

Not much to add at this point, except that as far as compromise goes, I would pretty much consider any area of the Pacific NW within a day's drive of the coast. I know, not much of a compromise, but, hey, progress. I did live in Eugene for a time, though I'm not a U of O graduate, and it's beautiful there but if Portland has a bad job economy I shudder to think what Eugene's might be. I originally moved to Portland from Eugene for job opportunity.

What about Corvallis? I'm actually just starting back on my degree through the eCampus at OSU. It enables me to fully complete the degree online or coordinate with local schools for transferable credit, but it would be nice to be within reach of campus resources. I had automatically assumed the same job economy, but...am I wrong?

PDXmom, I hear what you are saying about liberalism. I consider myself a bit more of a liberatarian now than a liberal. Def. not conservative in social opinion, but perhaps more so economically. And you're so right about rigid liberal thinking! As far as schools go, I am a totally ignorant novice and I appreciate your input about schools. That's definitely something I need to educate myself about. My son is 2 1/2, so while it is not immediately crucial, it will be soon. I have a feeling that the School Issue is pretty abysmal across the U.S. Seems like wherever you go, people hate the schools. This is the case here in Delaware - it is generally accepted (this is just from offhand comments made by parents I know) that the public schools are a disgrace and people with any means to do so generally invest in a private school. I am not particularly an activist but I do pay a little attention here and there to this and that (if that makes any sense) and it's my general feeling that people here don't much give a hoot. They may not like something, whether it be school quality or neighborhood communities, but they're not much interested in putting any kind of effort into helping to change what they don't like, and if presented with the opportunity come up with a laundry list of reasons why they can't spare the time. So while I agree that it is sad that the education has gotten to the point that it needs parents to flip houses, I'm leaning more towards it being commendable that there actually exists a group of parents who care enough to conceive of and organize such an effort. Over here, it's more like..."What Arts & Music? What is THAT? Aw, we don't need none of that sissy stuff! Go Eagles!" (Yeah....that was a cheap shot, I know. I'm bitter.) But in regards to property tax...DE property tax is dirt cheap, so it's perhaps not suprising that the schools are not highly regarded...and from that same argument, you could also say that it's even more of a shame that there would be a problem with Portland schools precisely because the property tax is so high.
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