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Real beaches
Real mountains
Close to other important cities
More temperate climate than much of Illinois (fewer tornadoes, extreme heat events, less variation from extreme heat in the summer to bitter cold in the winter, fewer floods).
More highly respected institutes of higher education There is nothing shabby about the University of Illinois, the U. of Chicago, IIT, and many others. Probably similar per capital.
Borders Canada So?
Bigger city, more opportunity I think they are both (NYC and Chicago) large enough to offer decent oppotunities for almost everyone.
Generally less grating accents (Illinois goes from Great Lakes accents around Chicago to Southern accents around Cairo and Carbondale) Surely you jest! LoooonG Island, the Bronx, Albany all annoying accents. Upstate sounds much like Chicago.
Better food (Yes, pizza too)
Higher international presence
Higher pay
Yes. I find the accents of Illinois to be grating. MOST people in New York do not have irritating Great Lakes accents. From Watertown through Syracuse to Rochester and Buffalo that accent can be found. Away from that area, including Albany, not so much.
Next, New York offers more opportunity than Illinois. Higher pay, larger selection of jobs, more respected institutions.
New York has Columbia, Cornell, Syracuse, Fordham, Ithaca College, NYU, and the SUNY system. New York kills Illinois when it comes to higher education.
Lastly, you get what you pay for. Yes, costs are higher in New York. That's for a good reason. Notice that the places people want to live are generally the most expensive. Florida, New York, California, Massachusetts.
I'm not sure NY kills Illinois when it comes to higher ed. Ithaca College is a small liberal arts school. A lot of the SUNY colleges are ranked third tier (out of four) by USNews.
From Wiki:
Three universities in or immediately adjoining the city, Northwestern University, the University of Illinois at Chicago, and the University of Chicago, are among the top echelon ("RU/VH") of doctorate-granting research universities according to the Carnegie Classification system. The University of Illinois at Chicago, a nationally ranked public research institution, is the city's largest university.[71] UIC boasts the nation's largest medical school.
That is just Chicago. Illinois has several highly ranked liberal arts colleges as well, such as Illinois Wesleyan, and a state system that is at least as good as New York's SUNY system.
This is a great opportunity to bring up what I consider a major difference between Chicago and New York City and the dynamics between their respective greater regions.
Both cities have many places to do go and things to see and places to go within their respective states/regions. Here's I think is where the overall difference lies in my opinion:
Chicago overall tends to suck/drain the (intellectual/financial/spiritual) energy out of the midwest/Great Lakes
whereas,
New York City tends to release human energy into the northeast/east coast.
The reason for this is complicated, but heres why I think this is.
Chicago is overall vibrant, exciting and dense enough to give people lifetime of urban exploration, that wouldn't be provided by any other non-coastal city, but yet has just enough space to breath, and is cheap (relatively) enough for people to live out their lives within the city limits, and some cases keep people from even consider living anywhere else.
NYC it seems like, has absolutely everything you could possibly think of, but is so dense, so noisy, (garbage is not put in alleys, but by the sidewalk) crowded, expensive, that even people who love NYC, at least I think at some point says "the hell with it! I moving upstate, NJ, Vermont, etc."
Again this is from my limited knowledge.
The consequences of this is that people in other midwestern locales are likely to think "oh, Detroit is a pit, the suburbs while nice have a bad job market, and the rest of Michigan is "boring" so they move to Chicago. They same goes for people from Ohio, etc. This means that many places that have potential experience a "brain drain" to some extent.
While in the northeast transplanted New Yorkers it seems bring their progressive culture, creativity, and intellectual energy to the beautiful scenery to the Catskills, Vermont. New York City from what I understand has only a few beaches and a few private boat harbors, while Chicagos lakefront has many of these.
Consequence: south of New York City you have the Jersey Shore, lined with many active towns all up and down the shore. While in Chicago people have never seen the beautiful Michigan side of the lake, and now you have the Michigan tourist board with commercials with "Seriously Chicagoans, Harbor Countrys not that far! Come and spend of your tourist dollars here."
They have to advertise this as if its some undiscovered spot. Same goes from Wisconsin's driftless hill countryBaraboo hills, the closest things Chicago has to New Yorks Catskills mtns. It seems its not like this in the northeast or in California.
While the midwest does have other cities besides Chicago, most of them are kind of far and have been hit hard by deindustrialization, and the natural wonders of the midest are tucked away beyond and behind the flat cornfields (would you know Starved Rock was just a mile from I-80?). Whereas in the northeast it is a little more obvious. Also east coast cities are close to each other, so maybe New Yorkers are possibly a little more aware of Boston, Philly, etc.
So the difference is is that Chicagos hinterlands have MUCH potential, and haven't lived up to it, for a variety of reasons.
New York Cities hinterlands seem much more developed in terms of tourism.
Whether these things are good things or bad. Just my perspective.
Let me know what you think.
You have no clue what you are talking about. Talking about sucking and draining financially? Last time I checked, New York was much more expensive than Illinois to live in. Chicago, which is in Illinois, ranked as the best technological city in America and has numerous jobs for young and out of college kids. You also just compared two cities when this is about the states as a whole. The part about "brain drain" If you haven't noticed New York City's size then I'll remind you that it has a few times Chicago's population so if what you claim is true then the same would happen to them but with more people. Once again it was just a city comparasson. Chicagoans spend a lot of time on the Michigan side of the lake, I know countless people that own a second home up there or travel to go there. I don't know what Michigan's advertising has anything to do with Illinois as a whole but I want to remind you that we also have advertsiments for Montana, California and hey, even New York here in Illinois. The Midwest is NOT mostly in the Rustbelt so deindustrialization didn't really affect that area. Infact I think Go Ne could tell us a little aobut how Well Omaha, a Midwestern non-Rust Belt city, is doing as recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronx_kidd
Illinois
New York
ill take NY any day
While that is a nice view of New York, I can't believe you posted a picture of corn for Illinois.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman
Yes. I find the accents of Illinois to be grating. MOST people in New York do not have irritating Great Lakes accents. From Watertown through Syracuse to Rochester and Buffalo that accent can be found. Away from that area, including Albany, not so much.
Next, New York offers more opportunity than Illinois. Higher pay, larger selection of jobs, more respected institutions.
New York has Columbia, Cornell, Syracuse, Fordham, Ithaca College, NYU, and the SUNY system. New York kills Illinois when it comes to higher education.
Lastly, you get what you pay for. Yes, costs are higher in New York. That's for a good reason. Notice that the places people want to live are generally the most expensive. Florida, New York, California, Massachusetts.
Miamiman, hmm you find "the accents of Illinois to be grating" While you live in Florida, Miami of all places. The sound of your newscaster's voice at night, the one that you probably hear a decent amount of time living in Florida is the same one you're bashing. Plently of Midwesterners moved from the Midwest to Florida giving it a fairly Midwestern sound. I will say that I don't like the New York, Boston or New Jersey accent. I do realize that not everyone has one like that.
Actually the average Illinois salary is $49,328 compared to $48,472 for New York. I also mentioned that Chicago, which houses the majority of the state's population was ranked number 1 technology and job-wise jsut recently. St. Louis is also a major urban area that creates jobs for people.
"more respected institutions." and "New York kills Illinois when it comes to higher education." Really? Have you forgotten about The University of Chicago, The University of Illinois, The University of Illinois at Chicago, Illinois State, Northwestern, DePaul and Loyola. Not to mention the countless number of smaller liberal arts colleges that are highly ranked.
Yes New York has New York University, Columbia university, Syracuse University, Cornell University and West Point. It about evens out the number of "respected institutions."
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman
New York
Real beaches
Real mountains
Close to other important cities
More temperate climate than much of Illinois (fewer tornadoes, extreme heat events, less variation from extreme heat in the summer to bitter cold in the winter, fewer floods).
More highly respected institutes of higher education
Borders Canada
Bigger city, more opportunity
Generally less grating accents (Illinois goes from Great Lakes accents around Chicago to Southern accents around Cairo and Carbondale)
Better food (Yes, pizza too)
Higher international presence
Higher pay
I won't argue the higher international presence but I already dismissed the higher pay notion you somehow found. Real beaches, have you even been to any Illinois beaches, we have real ones, even Chicago:
It's also funny to think that people don't need or want mountains in their everyday lives as everyone makes it seem. Illinois contains Chicago, is By Milwaukee, St. Louis, Louisville and countless other important cities. The average temperatrue form Illinois to New York differs so much because of how far it stretches and in fact northern New York experiences much harsher winters than Illinois. Lake effect cold and snow pummle the Buffalo area. I don't see how boardering Canada gives the state an upper hand especially when you need a passport ot visit it now. Illinois has the best style of pizza and hot dog that anyone on the planet could wish for. Infact, there are two known styles of pizza famous form here.
I'd rather live in chicago than nyc, rather much of chicago burbs than long island. But definitely rather upstate than pretty much all of illinois (downstate?)
Fertile prarie cornfields are more practical and useful than hilly lake country. Which is why so many New Yorkers went west to Illinois, indeed a great many of the people who farmed the prarie were ex New Yorkers who were tired of farming rocks.
When the Erie Canal opened there was a great influx of New Yorkers and New Englanders to Illinois.
New York also gave Illinois Joseph Smith and Al Capone.
Miamiman, hmm you find "the accents of Illinois to be grating" While you live in Florida, Miami of all places. The sound of your newscaster's voice at night, the one that you probably hear a decent amount of time living in Florida is the same one you're bashing. Plently of Midwesterners moved from the Midwest to Florida giving it a fairly Midwestern sound. I will say that I don't like the New York, Boston or New Jersey accent. I do realize that not everyone has one like that.
I actually live in Scottsdale, Arizona now. I haven't lived in Miami in quite some time. I'm not sure if you've been to Florida, but the majority of Miamians are not former Midwesterners. Midwesterners tend to settle on the west coast of Florida (Naples, Fort Myers, Sarasota, Tampa Bay) while people from New York, New Jersey, and Philadelphia tend to move to Florida's east coast (Jacksonville, Daytona Beach, and South Florida). I have NEVER heard any newscasters in Miami with a Midwestern accent. You are MUCH more likely to hear an accent from one of the cities on the east coast, which I can tolerate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
Actually the average Illinois salary is $49,328 compared to $48,472 for New York. I also mentioned that Chicago, which houses the majority of the state's population was ranked number 1 technology and job-wise jsut recently. St. Louis is also a major urban area that creates jobs for people.
The difference between those salaries is ridiculously small. Everyone knows that a fairly large portion of Western and Central New York has faced job loss over the past 50 years. NYC has a higher median income than Chicago. Still, if New York were it's own country it would have the 16th largest economy in the world.
"more respected institutions." and "New York kills Illinois when it comes to higher education." Really? Have you forgotten about The University of Chicago, The University of Illinois, The University of Illinois at Chicago, Illinois State, Northwestern, DePaul and Loyola. Not to mention the countless number of smaller liberal arts colleges that are highly ranked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
Yes, New York has New York University, Columbia university, Syracuse University, Cornell University and West Point. It about evens out the number of "respected institutions."
I really can't believe this is even an argument. Does Illinois even have an Ivy League schools? No. New York has two. The ONLY state in the US to have more than one. I have never made the claim the Illinois doesn't have major universities. But trying to compare Northwestern to Cornell or Columbia, the University of Illinois to multiple highly respected SUNY campuses (Binghamton, Buffalo, Albany, Oswego, Geneseo). The CUNY system is the largest urban university system in the United States. Let's not forget about Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore, Bard, Marist, University of Rochester, Rochester Institute of Technology, West Point, the Marine Academy. Let's also not forget that New York imports more college students than ANY state in the country, including California. Lastly, let's not ignore the fact that New York has the greatest number of degree granting institutions in this country only behind California.
There is no "even"ing out between Illinois and New York. Between Ivy League Schools, housing two of the Seven Sisters, several military schools, a host of other extremely respected private colleges, the largest urban university system in the country, and a state school system with a great deal of highly respected campuses, Illinois lags FAR behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
I won't argue the higher international presence but I already dismissed the higher pay notion you somehow found.
Again, NYC's income is higher than that of Chicago's. If we compared Manhattan to Chicago there would be no contest. A $900/yr. variation in income between the two states is not really significant enough for you to prove anything to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
Real beaches, have you even been to any Illinois beaches, we have real ones, even Chicago:
Real beaches to me are on an ocean or a gulf. If the water you rely on for your "beach" freezes over in the winter I don't consider it a real beach. I'm glad you were able to fish up pictures of Chicagolanders on Lake Michigan. If I lived there I would pack up my stuff and sit on the sand, too. New York not only has the Atlantic, the Long Island Sound, the Finger Lakes, a host of lakes in the Catskills and Adironacks, the Thousand Islands, but also TWO Great Lakes.
It's hard to go 5 feet in any direction in Arizona without running into someone who is from Illinois. Many Midwesterners I have encountered LOVE the fact that Arizona is a mountainous state. Additionally, if many Illinois residents have never seen real mountains, what's there to miss? You can't miss something you've never seen.
For all purposes here, I prefer New York over Illinois because there are real mountains there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
Illinois contains Chicago, is By Milwaukee, St. Louis, Louisville and countless other important cities.
I don't have to parade around talking about other cities that are near New York. Louisville is not near Illinois, and is personally not a city I would boast about living near. Milwaukee is another town that is LONG past its heyday. St. Louis is an amazing city, but again, it's NOT IN ILLINOIS.
Please tell me what countless other "important" cities are near Illinois. Davenport? Cape Girardeau? Terre Haute? Paducah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
The average temperatrue form Illinois to New York differs so much because of how far it stretches and in fact northern New York experiences much harsher winters than Illinois. Lake effect cold and snow pummle the Buffalo area.
I argued that the range of temperature is New York is not nearly as severe as Illinois. Sure, northern New York gets extremely cold and snowy in the winter. However, it's rare that those same places get more than a couple of days of heat and humidity each summer. Illinois has seen temperatures reach 117 degrees before while seeing temperatures as cold as -36. That screams volatility to me. I also talked about the tornadoes and floods that Illinois seems to experience on a much greater frequency than anywhere in New York. Chicago also sees wind off of Lake Michigan, which can make the temperature outside during winter seem almost intolerable. Other than lake-effect and the occasional Nor'easter, New York's weather is pretty quiet. I prefer New York. Less volatility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
I don't see how boardering Canada gives the state an upper hand especially when you need a passport ot visit it now.
So the fact that you need a passport erases the perk of having Canada on New York's doorstep? It's really not that difficult to get a passport and show it and the checkpoint. Since you mentioned "major" cities near Chicago, let me mention that Toronto and Montreal are less than 1.5 away from the closest point in New York. We won't even start talking about all the other cities up and down the I-95 corridor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR
Illinois has the best style of pizza and hot dog that anyone on the planet could wish for. Infact, there are two known styles of pizza famous form here.
Completely your opinion. I respect that. I'm sure children in Bhutan are wobbling at the knees for a pepperoni deep dish from Giordano's .Chicago's pizza is tasty. However, of course, I like New York's pizza and hot dogs the best. They are also world-famous, too.
So let me see -- you're basing a schools' prestige on the athletic conference they're in? Are Dartmouth and University of Pennsylvania really that special? More so than Rice or MIT or Carnegie-Mellon or NYU or Stanford?
While Illinois may not have any "Ivy League" schools, it does have two elite top-tier private schools (Northwestern and University of Chicago) and two public schools that are among the most respected research universities in the nation: University of Illinois (esp. for engineering, computer science and agriculture), and University of Illinois at Chicago for social sciences.
I'm not sure NY kills Illinois when it comes to higher ed. Ithaca College is a small liberal arts school. A lot of the SUNY colleges are ranked third tier (out of four) by USNews.
From Wiki:
Three universities in or immediately adjoining the city, Northwestern University, the University of Illinois at Chicago, and the University of Chicago, are among the top echelon ("RU/VH") of doctorate-granting research universities according to the Carnegie Classification system. The University of Illinois at Chicago, a nationally ranked public research institution, is the city's largest university.[71] UIC boasts the nation's largest medical school.
That is just Chicago. Illinois has several highly ranked liberal arts colleges as well, such as Illinois Wesleyan, and a state system that is at least as good as New York's SUNY system.
That's true. Illinois University has one of the best hospitals in the U.S. or maybe the World.
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.Chicago's pizza is tasty. However, of course, I like New York's pizza and hot dogs the best. They are also world-famous, too.
