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So let me see -- you're basing a schools' prestige on the athletic conference they're in? Are Dartmouth and University of Pennsylvania really that special? More so than Rice or MIT or Carnegie-Mellon or NYU or Stanford?
While Illinois may not have any "Ivy League" schools, it does have two elite top-tier private schools (Northwestern and University of Chicago) and two public schools that are among the most respected research universities in the nation: University of Illinois (esp. for engineering, computer science and agriculture), and University of Illinois at Chicago for social sciences.
While Ivy League schools were initially formed on an athletic conference, they are now some the most selective and prestigious schools in the nation. Dartmouth and Penn are very prestigious schools, especially when held against schools such as Illinois and Northwestern. Penn's Wharton School of Business? Enough said. Just look at the movers and shakers in society who have graduated from Ivy Leauges. To stay on track here, I believe that Columbia and Cornell are generally more respected and competitive than Northwestern and the University of Chicago. Just my opinion. I think it's incredibly provincial to try to compare a school like Northwestern to someplace like Columbia, Cornell, or even NYU.
Why do people keep naming the same 5 schools over and over? New York has 307 degree granting universities. In my last post, I named about 16 highly respected schools THROUGHOUT the state of New York. Illinois State doesn't compare to Bard or Vassar, SIU doesn't compare to Marist or Fordham. All of the schools are very respected and each have their own strengths. RPI and RIT are ACTUAL schools geared toward engineering, and therefore have some of the strongest programs in the worrld.
I don't know if you missed my last fact, but New York brings in more students to its colleges and universities than ANY state in the country. It must be doing something right.
While Ivy League schools were initially formed on an athletic conference, they are now some the most selective and prestigious schools in the nation. Dartmouth and Penn are very prestigious schools, especially when held against schools such as Illinois and Northwestern. Penn's Wharton School of Business? Enough said. Just look at the movers and shakers in society who have graduated from Ivy Leauges. To stay on track here, I believe that Columbia and Cornell are generally more respected and competitive than Northwestern and the University of Chicago. Just my opinion. I think it's incredibly provincial to try to compare a school like Northwestern to someplace like Columbia, Cornell, or even NYU.
OK, let's see what U.S. News and World Report has to say about it:
University of Chicago: 9th
Columbia: 9th (tie)
Cornell: 12th
Northwestern: 14th
NYU: 34th
University of Illinois: 38th
So Illinois' top institutions are hanging right in there with New York's prestigious institutions in the upper echelons where differences are small matters of degree. But I'm sure U.S. News is a "provincial" publication -- based out of New York. I suspect there's a good chance this "provincial" school called Northwestern wouldn't admit you as a student.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
I don't know if you missed my last fact, but New York brings in more students to its colleges and universities than ANY state in the country. It must be doing something right.
Golly, wonder if that has anything to do with New York's massive population and sheer number of schools.
The difference between those salaries is ridiculously small. Everyone knows that a fairly large portion of Western and Central New York has faced job loss over the past 50 years. NYC has a higher median income than Chicago. Still, if New York were it's own country it would have the 16th largest economy in the world.
You still said that they earned more money I disproved that and never said that we had so much more. New York has a big population so being the 16th largest economy doesn't mean much to individuals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman
I really can't believe this is even an argument. Does Illinois even have an Ivy League schools? No. New York has two. The ONLY state in the US to have more than one. I have never made the claim the Illinois doesn't have major universities. But trying to compare Northwestern to Cornell or Columbia, the University of Illinois to multiple highly respected SUNY campuses (Binghamton, Buffalo, Albany, Oswego, Geneseo). The CUNY system is the largest urban university system in the United States. Let's not forget about Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore, Bard, Marist, University of Rochester, Rochester Institute of Technology, West Point, the Marine Academy. Let's also not forget that New York imports more college students than ANY state in the country, including California. Lastly, let's not ignore the fact that New York has the greatest number of degree granting institutions in this country only behind California.
There is no "even"ing out between Illinois and New York. Between Ivy League Schools, housing two of the Seven Sisters, several military schools, a host of other extremely respected private colleges, the largest urban university system in the country, and a state school system with a great deal of highly respected campuses, Illinois lags FAR behind.
Like Drover said, just because you have schools that belong to a well known athletic conference means nothing. University of Illinois, University of Chicago and Northwestern are the best of best schools. Even our smaller schools, like i said before, are some of the best. Illinois State University is one of the top 10 not just in how many teachers they put out but top 10 in the quality of the teachers.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
Again, NYC's income is higher than that of Chicago's. If we compared Manhattan to Chicago there would be no contest. A $900/yr. variation in income between the two states is not really significant enough for you to prove anything to me.
Manhattan is only part of New York City, we are talking about the state as a whole. You are also comparing a borough to a whole city. I'll repeat this again that I'll I did was disprove what you said about New York earning more money, not that New york made thousands less than Illinois.
Real beaches to me are on an ocean or a gulf. If the water you rely on for your "beach" freezes over in the winter I don't consider it a real beach. I'm glad you were able to fish up pictures of Chicagolanders on Lake Michigan. If I lived there I would pack up my stuff and sit on the sand, too. New York not only has the Atlantic, the Long Island Sound, the Finger Lakes, a host of lakes in the Catskills and Adironacks, the Thousand Islands, but also TWO Great Lakes.
Long Island sound is a part of the Atlantic and Illinois has land on the most important lake to the United States and the most important river, the Mississippi. Both the Ohio River and Mississippi River touch Illinois and they have beaches. There is no major difference between a beach on Lake Michigan and a beach on the ocean. For the most part Lake Michigan doesn't freeze over. I guess you can't count the oceans' beaches either because they can freeze as well.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
It's hard to go 5 feet in any direction in Arizona without running into someone who is from Illinois. Many Midwesterners I have encountered LOVE the fact that Arizona is a mountainous state. Additionally, if many Illinois residents have never seen real mountains, what's there to miss? You can't miss something you've never seen.
For all purposes here, I prefer New York over Illinois because there are real mountains there.
I know that there are a lot of people who vacation down there in the summer. Even if you haven't seen something in person it doesn't mean that you don't want to see them. here in Illinois, most of the people I know don't care about mountains.
And I prefer Illinois over New York because of the smoother land. Personal preference. At least you aren't someone in Illinois complaining about it.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
I don't have to parade around talking about other cities that are near New York. Louisville is not near Illinois, and is personally not a city I would boast about living near. Milwaukee is another town that is LONG past its heyday. St. Louis is an amazing city, but again, it's NOT IN ILLINOIS.
Please tell me what countless other "important" cities are near Illinois. Davenport? Cape Girardeau? Terre Haute? Paducah?
Except you said "Close to other important cities" meaning that they aren't in the state. So me listing other important cities close to the Illinois boarder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiman
I argued that the range of temperature is New York is not nearly as severe as Illinois. Sure, northern New York gets extremely cold and snowy in the winter. However, it's rare that those same places get more than a couple of days of heat and humidity each summer. Illinois has seen temperatures reach 117 degrees before while seeing temperatures as cold as -36. That screams volatility to me. I also talked about the tornadoes and floods that Illinois seems to experience on a much greater frequency than anywhere in New York. Chicago also sees wind off of Lake Michigan, which can make the temperature outside during winter seem almost intolerable. Other than lake-effect and the occasional Nor'easter, New York's weather is pretty quiet. I prefer New York. Less volatility.
You live in Arizona and lived in Florida and are talking about how warm it gets in Illinois? Illinois has a good range of weather for a state of it's size. It has something for everyone. How would you know of unbearable coming from Arizona and Florida and you are comparing Illinois to New York, not some sunbelt state. People at our latitude can take the cold. I also like how you forgot that New York has experienced highs of 108 and lows of -57.
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Originally Posted by miamiman
So the fact that you need a passport erases the perk of having Canada on New York's doorstep? It's really not that difficult to get a passport and show it and the checkpoint. Since you mentioned "major" cities near Chicago, let me mention that Toronto and Montreal are less than 1.5 away from the closest point in New York. We won't even start talking about all the other cities up and down the I-95 corridor.
It can take anywhere from 3- 6 months to get a passport, is that convnient? You also said that cities that I listed that weren't in the state didn't count because they weren't in Illinois but you are listing a city NOT IN THE COUNTRY. Then you go list the I-95 corridor? Toronto from New York and Montreal from New York takes about the same time as Louisville from Illinois. You contradicted yourself a lot.
Upstate New York is so beautiful. Mountains, lakes, rivers. I'm sorry, but Illinois doesn't have anything in its rural areas that can possibly compare.
And as for cities, while I love Chicago, it can't hold a candle to the capital of the world, New York City.
Wisconsin does though (have lakes, forests, high hills (not quite mountains but very scenic nonetheless). Since Chicago is at the northern edge of Illinois, Chicago has just as much access to all of Wisconsin as it does to all of Illinois.
The Shawnee Hills of IL are pretty cool too, although kind of a small area way at the southern tip of IL, a little too far from Chicago.
The Shawnee Hills of IL are pretty cool too, although kind of a small area way at the southern tip of IL, a little too far from Chicago.
We're talking about Illinos state so it doesn't matter where it is as long as it is in the state or near it. Besides that, I like Starved rock state park. It has a beautiful, but long, path that goes dirrectly through a canyon. it's near Grand Bear Resort in Utica\LaSalle County Illinois. I'd recomed it for any vacation.
I go with Illinois. Chicago is an amazing city, the cost of living in Illinois is lower.
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