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Old 07-10-2008, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 13,294,677 times
Reputation: 2929

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Quote:
Originally Posted by e2ksj3 View Post
It is a sign of history and the past. I could care less what people do, but I always seem to associate people who love to fly the flag with ignorance. I think people get too wrapped into it.

I have a few neighbors of mine that are civil war buffs, and you would think that after talking to them about it, that they actually lived back then. They can tell you about all the battles, how,when, and who fought them, all the military strategies. I don't see why people get so wrapped up in. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should know history, but your historic focus shouldn't be spent on this one war. They get so consumed with it that, I ask them a question about other major points (and they claim to be big in American history) in history, like the western expansion and the history of much of the western state, and they give me this vague look.

Then they always throw around, "well the south should have one", "it wasn't for slavery, it was for states right", yaddad yadda, but they are also conservative, love everything about America, bumper sticker/flag lapel pin types too. I also screw with their heads and ask them off the wall questions like "If the South decided to succeed again today, would you fight for the USA or the Confederacy" and they always try to avoid giving me a direct answer, lol.
i gotta use that line question.Thanks for that one!!!
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Baton Rouge
1,734 posts, read 5,061,615 times
Reputation: 651
Well, I am white, and though I don't make a habit of displaying a Confederate flag in my yard or on my vehicle or anything like that, I don't agree that all of the people who do are advocates of another confederate states of america or that they are pro-slavery. I think people forget that there were other key issues that caused the civil war other than slavery and racism. I don't feel that there is any particular reason or need to display a confedrate flag, because I understand that it causes discomfort to some people. However, I also feel that if sombodies ancestor died fighting with the confederacy, and that is the reason they are proud of that flag, which I think is normally the case, it is not right to attack that person and label them an insensitive racist hick. I believe that only 5% of confederate soldiers owned slaves, so why woud the other 95% go off and die so these rich planters could keep making money while the rest of the people stayed poor. This means that the Confederacy was about more than just slavery and racism. That is not the only meaning behind the Confederate flag.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:36 AM
 
419 posts, read 1,163,197 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by internat View Post
In Europe mostly reactionary working class racists into white pride use it as a symbol. They are sometimes members of a gang of youth that ride American cars from 1950's.

Is white pride a bad thing? Though personally I can't think of ever thinking.. damn i'm proud i'm white. I'm just proud of who I am as a person...

I used to have a confederate flag on my wall, when I was in HS. It had nothing to do with race, or even southern pride, i'm not southern. It had to do with the flag standing for rebellion and states rights. Considering I'm a DJ and deeply involved in the hip hop community I think most people would have a hard time trying to claim i'm racist or a bigot.

As someone who is very into history, I think more people should study and learn the civil war was about more then just slavery. And I do realize most people look at the flag in a negative view, and today I am one of those people, but not because I think it is racist, but because I think it represents poor white trash anymore, and well I suppose to some or even most it is a racial thing. But that wasn't why I had one on my wall, and while I think it would be wrong to quickly label people with the flag an ignorant racist ... I understand it. We all judge people when we see them, by their clothes, hair, or other things.. even if we like to think we don't.

Last edited by skrazzle; 07-10-2008 at 11:20 AM..
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Old 07-10-2008, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Austin
4,102 posts, read 7,366,612 times
Reputation: 2124
Quote:
Originally Posted by seeingeye View Post
I may be "unenlightened" but I don't recall many [ANY] instances where mobs [lynch-mobs] of people lynched, beat, murdered and committed TERRORISM on America's soil carrying Soviet flags.
However, I do recall numerous instances where people carrying confederate flags have committed these atrocities.
Russia is a country with a history longer than America's. It is not representative of a bunch of traitors who lost a war.

I like you.
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:23 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,146,970 times
Reputation: 1329
As a black American, I am uncomfortable when I see the display of the Confederate flag. I don't see it as a symbol of white pride but as a symbol associated with racism and support for the instution of slavery in this country, although I can see where some might feel that it is a symbol of southern pride and recognition of those individuals/ancestors who gave their lives in the war on the Confederate side. God bless.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:12 PM
 
278 posts, read 707,881 times
Reputation: 66
i think its ignorance at worst, prejudice at best... or is it ignorance at best, prejudice at worst!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroBTR
I think people forget that there were other key issues that caused the civil war other than slavery and racism.
many people understand that there were other issues. but one issue, slavery, is stands out a little more for a particular group of people... whereas those who support the flag try to downplay the slavery issue.



Quote:
However, I also feel that if sombodies ancestor died fighting with the confederacy, and that is the reason they are proud of that flag, which I think is normally the case, it is not right to attack that person and label them an insensitive racist hick.
being proud that old great great grandpappy fought on the losing side of a war doesn't seem to be something to proud of. i mean, do people really sit around actively thinking and discussing this heritage?!?!? i venture, from reading the other thread, that the answer will be yes. sadly.


Quote:
I believe that only 5% of confederate soldiers owned slaves, so why woud the other 95% go off and die so these rich planters could keep making money while the rest of the people stayed poor.

i don't profess to be a civil war buff, but it would seem to most people that in wars, its typically the young and/or poor who end up fighting on the front lines who may or may not have any personal stake in the actual reasons for the war itself. in some ways, its similar to our soldiers in iraq/afghanistan now, the overwhelming majority of which were not directly affected by 9/11 (of course we could go into the reasons that were actually on/in either battlefront right now, but i digress).

Quote:
This means that the Confederacy was about more than just slavery and racism. That is not the only meaning behind the Confederate flag.
remember, there's history after the confederacy as well. as seeingeye pointed out:
Quote:
I may be "unenlightened" but I don't recall many [ANY] instances where mobs [lynch-mobs] of people lynched, beat, murdered and committed TERRORISM on America's soil carrying Soviet flags.
However, I do recall numerous instances where people carrying confederate flags have committed these atrocities.
Russia is a country with a history longer than America's. It is not representative of a bunch of traitors who lost a war.
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:51 PM
 
763 posts, read 2,039,972 times
Reputation: 236
Treason?

Every state that seceded had the legal right to do so!

Slavery?

Nothing about the War for Southern Independence was about slavery until several years into the war when Abraham Lincoln tried a play to help him win. What did he do? He tried to free slaves in the South (which he had no legal right to do) while not freeing them in the North! Slavery was already on its way out in the South, and racism was far more institutionalized in the north for most of the post-war history of our nation.

Yet no one talks about how racist the Union was or how they wanted to keep the slaves down!

Civil War?

A civil war is a war in which two or more parties are fighting for control of the same country. Union documents, not Confederate, show that this was a war fought between two sovereign nations, the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. Abraham Lincoln, in his own words, did not care about slavery (other than getting elected and re-elected), but he did care about taxes.

Try this site: Brothers of Colour
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:06 PM
 
278 posts, read 707,881 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgusano View Post
Treason?

Every state that seceded had the legal right to do so!

Slavery?

Nothing about the War for Southern Independence was about slavery until several years into the war when Abraham Lincoln tried a play to help him win. What did he do? He tried to free slaves in the South (which he had no legal right to do) while not freeing them in the North! Slavery was already on its way out in the South, and racism was far more institutionalized in the north for most of the post-war history of our nation.

Yet no one talks about how racist the Union was or how they wanted to keep the slaves down!

Civil War?

A civil war is a war in which two or more parties are fighting for control of the same country. Union documents, not Confederate, show that this was a war fought between two sovereign nations, the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. Abraham Lincoln, in his own words, did not care about slavery (other than getting elected and re-elected), but he did care about taxes.
what do these points have to do with how black members of this board feel about a flag?


Quote:
Try this site: Brothers of Colour
one can be misguided, regardless of color/race/ethnicity/gender/religion/favorite team/political affiliation/etc.
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Old 07-12-2008, 11:26 PM
 
763 posts, read 2,039,972 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_el View Post
what do these points have to do with how black members of this board feel about a flag?
It has to do with truth.

Whether you like something or not, it should be based upon truth.

If your position is just, it doesn't need to be based upon lies and misconceptions.

Throwing out words like "treason" (by a poster on the first page) shows extreme ignorance about the law.

Showing ignorance about slavery in the USA also does not lend one to making a valid argument.
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