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Old 07-28-2008, 06:11 PM
 
1,178 posts, read 3,820,945 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I don't need websites, I have the United States census. Let's take the year 1840, 21 years before the Civil War. There were 331 slaves IN Illinois, total population 476,183. Across the river in Missouri there were 58,240 slaves, total population 383,702.

If we go to older states in that year we find 64 slaves in Pennsylvania, total population 1,724,033. A little ways to the south Virginia with a population of 1,239,797 had slaves in the number of 449,087.

Now you said there were slaves in the North "in great abundance". Evidently not unless you have a different definition of abundance than I do.

I haven't claimed the north as a bastion of enlightenment but compared to the south, yeah, on this issue it sure was.

I don't remember the governor of Illinois standing on any steps down in Champaign either, know what I mean? Never saw any Freedom Riders up north, wonder why? Was it because Blacks could vote? Never heard of anybody getting buried under a dam here for trying to vote either, not in my lifetime anyway, I was born in 1949, I remember lots of things, I remember going to an integrated public high school in Chicago in 1964. I remember brawling with Egyptian Cobras and Vice Lords at that school. I remember the killing of Fred Hampton but I also remember that the killing ruined the political career of the man responsible, an Irish guy no less.
I think Boomers like yourself need to get over the past. People in my generation, born in the seventies, are tired of hearing about the oh so horrible attrocities that occurred during your youth, as though such hasn't existed before. Your generation isn't called the "ME" generation for nothing. I didn't experience any of the things you argue, as I wasn't living in that era. Yet, I and my fellow southerners have to be berated for it, as though we are responsible for it.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:21 PM
 
1,178 posts, read 3,820,945 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Goodness?great life?I saw this thread and as educated well traveled southern gentlemen of African descent.I am proud to be southern.Most of the American culture originates from the south.You just don't realized you make the point why some people detest the south.No matter how much beauty, manners,"Christian values" you have,it mean nothing because of prejudiced ,hateful,ignorant people such as yourself.Have you noticed that the places that are slowest to accept change are those that are left behind socially,economically , and way behind in education.Most of those dying cities are in the South.AL,MS,TX, have many cities near the bottom poorest in the nation.
There is no "good" in a place if it cannot be enjoyed by all its people.Hate is something most normal people don't want to be around.No matter if black ,white or whatever.Every race in history has dark patches so none can claim superiority.You're just another "simple-minded, good ole boy" racist just like the other dying breeds out in the south wishing things were the way they used to be in "the good ole days".Seems like your heaven on earth gets smaller every time you leave your house
Even though there are still people like this guy.I still think that most stereotypes overall are not indicative of most people in the south.The rest of the country can learn many good things about the south.They do themselves a disservice to accept such things as fact.Here in Georgia,we have Our chief Supreme Court Justice is a black woman(elected statewide for the last 10years,2 other Black supreme court justices as well,she Labour Commissioner,State Attorney General.These are the highest position in State Government.
Why are you being negative, yourself? As far as I read RS-1080's post, he said nothing against anyone in particular, only that with increased migration to the south comes a loss in the quality of life (for those who love a quieter place), and that with the increase of people moving here who are from a different region, the way of life will be lost.

Now, I contend that most areas of the country and most people of the country aren't very different. There are obvious cultural distinctions, but these are relatively minor. However, people have a desire to maintain their cultural distinctions, as it is what they know and is a part of who they are.

When you say things like "good ol' boy" and say things that are unwarranted, it makes you into the person who is being rude.

Last edited by Scraper Enthusiast; 07-28-2008 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,716,978 times
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I agree that i may sound confrontational,but read his other post and you will see why.The post above the one that i responded to,he stated he would just sit down and have a beer with you ,but only if your"e "white".Did i miss something?I found that offensive.Because he says this type of lifestyle is what he would like to maintain.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,716,978 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by toughguy View Post
It's because the south still underachieves when it comes to education spending and income levels. They lag behind every other region in poverty and teen birth rates. Until they address these problems, they will still be viewed as pariahs. That, and the accents. Also, the south killed hiphop.
Without the south where would hip hop be?no jazz,blues r&b,country to sample.Jamaicans,Puerto Ricans up north have cool dialects and accents.Bostonians.with there nasal noises.But down south people sound bad?think about why you thinl the way you do and maybe you will see why the question was asked.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,716,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS-1080 View Post
Well, being a simple minded southern gentlemen, I'd sit down and talk it over with a beer or two. Only one condition though, you must be white like the rest of us, or buy your own drink .
i found it! here 's one tidbit of his feelings.And i should see a problem with this statement?
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:43 PM
 
Location: on the coast of somewhere beautiful
201 posts, read 654,528 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scraper Enthusiast View Post
I didn't say it out of ignorance. I stated it because it has a lot to do with the south ranking low on tests. The truth is not racism, nor ignorance. The truth can never be ignorance.

The "truth" is also a matter of perspective: for example, if you have 50 witnesses to a crime, you will receive 50 different versions of what happened- which is really the "truth"? Further, I have to say, I have met many well educated black people (as well as other minorities) that are much smarter than some white people. Race alone does not determine education levels. Often, it INDIRECTLY influences it in that x minority (pick one) cannot get a good job at a desired salary. Inability to get a good job at a decent salary leads to poor living conditions. Poor living conditions, and low property values often lead to less income for schools (which rely on taxes for funding). Less income for the schools leads to an inability to hire the best teachers. Inexperienced teachers and teachers who do not teach lead to children that are often uneducated in the ways of the world, and will do poorly on standardized tests because of the poor teaching they have received. In the rural south, racism is still very much alive, particularly compared to large cities, leading to discrimination (which, by the way, EVERYBODY faces, regardless of location, just to varying degrees). The discrimination limits the people of different ethnicities when they try to get a job, thus they are stuck in a cycle that repeats itself. I suggest you read "the working poor: invisible in america"- it sounds like you would be interested in some of the information in there. Further, I believe that the south ranks low on tests in general because much of the south is still rural and many are not exposed to the other cultures of the world- something that is often incorporated into tests these days.

How much conservatism do you like? Conservatism is all over America, granted it is slightly more pronounced in the south.

I agree that it is more pronounced in the south- just as it is in kansas. This is not unique in the south except that you will find more of it because of the amount of areas that are still rural.

What's wrong with Conservatism? Are you telling me that you promote the current view of intolerance to conservative points of view? Not very open-minded, I tell you.

Some liberals are intolerant of conservatives, just as some conservatives are intolerant of liberals. Neither is open-minded.

There is some, but it's not to the extent that you're making it. This isn't an issue in most locations. Where it has made the news is where it has occurred. Besides, why is this a bad thing? The U.S. was founded by religious men who believed that the free exercise of religion should not be thwarted.

I understand that people want a candidate in politics that represents and shares their particular viewpoints on the majority of things in life. However, people should not base their entire decision on religion. As religion still plays a huge part in many folks' lives down in the south (again, rural south), it makes sense that religion plays a large part in politics. With that in mind, the U.S. was founded by a group of men that believed in a separation of church and state- TO ALLOW FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

Yes, in some states, but not in others. Why paint every southern state with such a broad brush?

It is true that the south does not receive enough money for education- because the amount of money received is based on a few things, among which are standardized test scores and property values. The better the school does on the standardized test, the more money they get. The higher the property values, the higher the property tax, the more money the school gets. Lower property values in the majority of the rural south combined with low test scores mean less money for education. Because this trend amond RURAL areas seems to reoccur every year, staticians often lump the areas together. This "lumping" is deemed "the south". Unfortunately, Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, and other large cities happen to be located in the south. Many people understand that the cities are not the same as the rest of the south and when they stereotype, they stereotype the rural south.


Totally outdated. In rural areas, it is slow paced, whether it is in the rural northeast, midwest, or west. It doesn't matter. The pace of life is just as fast in the cities as in the cities of other regions. This isn't agrarian times.

I actually agree with you- the majority of rural areas ARE slow paced, regardless of where they are- people don't feel the need to rush around like they do in the cities. However, a city slicker would not be comfortable (usually) with the slow pace of life in the rural areas (which again, there are plenty of in the south). A country person would not be as comfortable in the city either. Different way of life. I believe people form this stereotype because in the south, you do not have to drive far to find the "slower" way of life, whereas up and down both the east and west coast, you hardly leave one city before you enter another, often larger city.


Perhaps people don't like your accent. I'm not particularly fond of the upper midwest accent, or the New England accent, but I don't use my distaste for such as a battering ram to berate the people of those regions.

The Southern accent, at least in most southerners, isn't as thick or drawled as the media has led you to believe.

oh contrary to your belief, it is to someone up north or from another area. Perhaps not in atlanta, but I assure you that I have difficulty understanding my family out in ewtonville, tn. On the other hand,I've had folks from chatanooga inform me that although they can understand me, they dislike the enunciation of every word - it sounds too "harsh and city-like". To each their own. An accent is an accent. I don't believe that a rural southern accent is any harder to understand that anyone who has lived in cape cod their entire life- different way of life, different way of speaking, different emphasis on different syllables.

The following link has a southern accent that is typical for many under 40 southern suburbanites (people not living in rural areas). What's not to like about it. We are not referring to people living in cities when we talk about accents- we are referring to the rural areas.

By the way, it's person "D"
Do You Speak American . Sea to Shining Sea . American Varieties . Mapping | PBS


(stuck in the past mentality)
In exactly what way? Is someone who disagrees with the promotion of homosexuality (unnatural), illegal immigration (against the law), eminent domain (anti-private property rights), and gun control (an affront to the second amendment) "stuck in the past". There are logical reasons for having those views, unlike many so-called "progressive" (Socialist) beliefs.

I think there is a misunderstanding on this point. Eminent domain is not something anybody but the government cares for. Many people are against illegal immigration, because not only is it against the law, but they also feel it is a drain on US resources and takes away US jobs. (I'm not arguing one way or the other here, just pointing out that there is nothing "stuck in the past" about this viewpoint). Gun control is touchy, because parents want their kids to be safe in schools, but states like Texas, are known for their lack of gun control. You're not considered "stuck in the past" simply because you have a viewpoint. As for homosexuality, the only reason you would be stuck in the past would be if you treated these people differently (goes back to discrimination and racism). many people DO consider it unnatural, however, science has recently shown that OTHER animals do not do the deed with only their species opposite gender. Recently (and you can google it if you would like), a male penguin in the central park zoo was found to be having "relations" with another male penguin- they even hatched an egg together! Scientists now believe that animals are motivated by the need to procreate and do not discriminate on gender, particularly when there is a deficiency of opposite gendered mates.

The South has been home to the most diversity since the country's inception. "Diversity" isn't grand like most people argue, as it generally leads to flight of one group, and it usually breaks down a community, socially and often economically.

I'm not sure this is true. I would define diversity as a mix of race, cultures, etc. Although there is a large percentage of whites AND blacks, there are few that I have encountered that would be willing to embrace someone of an opposite culture. California has a history of spanish (who lived there when the territory was acquired by the United States), native americans (there before the spanish took over), whites and blacks (moved with the gold rush), and chinese (came as immigrants through angel island and did the majority of work on the railroads). Diversity leads to a better understanding, acceptance, and tolerance of people that are not EXACTLY like you, which reduces wars (religious and cultural) and allows for communications between nations, which has lead to the creation of the UN, as well as several other international communities, groups, etc, which has led to trade agreements, and a higher standard of living.

People in other regions have dealt with far less "diversity", therefore their views are formed and solidified by what popular culture, courtesy of what the media and academia promote. In the same setting, their views would be nearly identical, and they are where they have been similar.

Check out this map for the percentage of whites by county. Second map

http://www.census.gov/population/cen...ensr01-105.pdf


(afraid of change)
That's funny, considering that the south has changed the most, population-wise, infrastructure-wise, developmentally-wise.

How has the south changed more than anywhere else? Increased numbers of population only read higher because of 1. more offspring, 2. when slavery ended, slaves counted as people on the census,and 3. with high real estate values elsewhere in the nation, many people thought that selling their house and moving somewhere affordable, not having a mortgage or a car payment sounded pretty good, creating an influx of transplants. The infrastructure has increased everywhere, not just the south. And how has the south changed in development? The cities have some unique architecture, but this could be argued about any city. I do not see the south on the cutting edge of technology (of any kind) or leading the economy (except perhaps in energy production).

(is it really a surprise that the poorest states are in the south)
NO, not when you consider that the south has a far higher percentage of blacks than most non-southern states.I'm not black and I find this offensive. NOT ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE POOR NOR ARE THEY THE CAUSE FOR IT Blacks in all areas of the country are more poverty-stricken. Because of afore mentioned reasons, starting with discrimination. However, there is one main area of the south that is poorer on average, such as eastern Kentucky, nevermind that the poorest county in all of the US is in TNthat have relatively few blacks. It, along with the poverty-stricken, majority black areas, as well as blacks in other areas, tend to bring the south down, or up, on lists dealing with poverty.

Blacks and whites and hispanics and asians all have opportunity to be poor, ARE all poor, and this is fueled not only by individual decisions, poor budgeting, and low cost of living. Poverty is a line drawn by the government that would determine whether or not a person is destitute in an average living situation- namely based on cities. Someone who is able to get by with a nursing job in KY may not be able to get by on that same income in california, due to a different cost of living. Race has little to do with it unless you count the fact that there are many blacks in the south owing to the fact that THREE generations ago, they were enslaved. (and in parts, still are today through sharecropping). Also, studies show that education levels directly correspond to wealth levels the majority of the time.




Yes, there are poor white people in Appalachia, all the way from the south up into the northeast. In Mississippi and Louisiana, there are some along the Delta.

My point, however, was that the poverty-levels are much less pronounced for whites relative to other whites in other regions, as opposed to blacks compared to other regions as a whole.
Rae county, TN, is primarily white. It is also the poorest in the nation; shall we compare it to Orange County, CA? That seems like a HUGE difference to me. The gap between those white people and even impoverished people in St Louis, MO is still huge, primarily because in the cities, people are more likely to receive assistance as they have more access to private and government funded programs. There are more blacks in the south as a REGION than any other region, this is true. However, if you average it, I believe that the majority of blacks are actually middle class, because many of them live in teh cities and have made a better life for themselves.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,016 posts, read 5,562,518 times
Reputation: 836
I can care less what people think, I am not a Southerner but have always love the South and felt the hospitality everytime I have visited. You just can't find that anywhere else in the country. The Southeast itself is one of the fastest growing region amongst the Rocky Mountain West apparent for many reasons. There will always be stereotypes but if you ask those that stereotype have they truly lived in the South, not counting Maryland, Washington D.C. or Florida, yea I didn't think so.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:19 PM
 
835 posts, read 2,296,168 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
i found it! here 's one tidbit of his feelings.And i should see a problem with this statement?
I think it was a joke...I hope.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,982 posts, read 35,037,981 times
Reputation: 7427
I don't care what people think about the south either. I think people in the north are self-centered and rude, and lots of posts on this forum prove my point. Why worry what others think?? After all, you live in the best region in America...the SOUTH!!!
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,067 posts, read 15,716,978 times
Reputation: 2980
Quote:
Originally Posted by guestposter24 View Post
I think it was a joke...I hope.
read some of his other post in other threads.then get back at me.you are half right,except he's the joke.lol
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