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New England: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island
Lower Northeast: New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey
Mid-Atlantic
Mid-Atlantic: Maryland, Delaware, eastern panhandle West Virginia
South
Southeast: Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, eastern 2/3 Tennessee, eastern 3/4 Kentucky, southern 1/2 West Virginia
South-Central: Mississippi, western 1/3 Tennessee, western 1/4 Kentucky, Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas (except areas west of Odessa), Oklahoma
West
Southwest: Texas (west of Odessa), New Mexico, Arizona, southern California, Southern Nevada
Intermountain: western 2/3 Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Idaho, Northern Nevada
(Pacific) Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Northern California
Midwest
Great Lakes: Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northern 1/3 West Virginia
Plains: Western 2/3 Kansas, Western 2/3 Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, eastern 1/3 Colorado
I like...but I have a few questions. Why did you put most of TN and KT in the South Atlantic region with Florida? Why include S. Cali. with the Southwest when it is so West Coast? Can you really split up Alabama and Mississippi?
While certainly I will not dispute how you personally see a U.S. map in terms of regional geography, I DO want to make a counter-point here as concerns Texas being "Southwest."
Other than the trans-pecos area (ala' El Paso), Texas is NOT Southwest...as in the same sense as are New Mexico and Arizona. And most residents of the former and latter will be the first to laugh at the notion that there is any shared "regional brotherhood"!
NM and AZ are the "southern West" while most of Texas is the "western South". These are completely different critters in terms of history and culture.
The whole thing began with westward migration. For many years, the "southwest" was simply the "frontier" parts of the "Greater South. Later, for geographical reasons, New Mexico and Arizona began to be called the Southwest and, as an article in Ency. of Southern Culture put it (paraphrased from recollection), "the relationship to the South became increasingly unclear..."
This is sort of where it stands today. That is, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico all being considered "Southwestern", yet too often no historical and cultural distinction between the former and the latter two when applying the label. So it gets confusing. Those in the latter two states tend to reject any sense of "Southwestern brotherhood" with us, and likewise, most Texans don't think of ourselves being Southwestern in the same vein with them.
Because all are often called "Southwestern" the subject can become a bit confusing, I admit.
And while I don't want to keep belaboring the point, Texas is southwest as in "western South" (and was always considered so, just as were Alabama and Mississippi back in the 1820's). A place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with Western dress, wide-open spaces, and free-spirited individuality (for the most part, that is. East Texas is where the Deep South of the southeast begins).
On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona are the true hispanic/indian influenced Southwest of the West, with nothing classically "Southern" about them.
I always heard Texans were Southerners until they hit the Balcones Escarpment- where they became Plainsmen.
Okay here's my take:
New England- what you'd expect: Me, Vt, NH, Mass, RI, and maybe Ct
Northeast: Ny, Nj, Pency, western Md, Del, northern Va. Fla south of Ocala, Ohio (eastern 1/3)
SE: Rest of Va (S. of Petersburg), eastern Md, NC, SC, GA, Ala, Miss, La, Fla north of Ocala. Tn, Eastern Ky. WVa, and Ohio (s. of Columbus and w. of Zanesville), E. Texas . Missouri (s. of I-70)
Midwest (southern): Ill (south of Champaign), Indiana ( outside of Chitown metro and Mi border co's), rest of Ohio. Mo north of I-70., W. Ky.
Midwest (northern) Dakotas, Mn, Wi, N. Ill, Ia, Lake and Porter Cos in Indiana along with Mi border Co's., Mi
SW: rest of Tx, Okla, NM, Az, southern Utah.
Intermontane: Colo, Wy, Mt, rest of Ut, Nevada (except for Vegas and Reno). E. Wa and Ore
California: San Fran south, and throw in Vegas and Reno.
I always heard Texans were Southerners until they hit the Balcones Escarpment- where they became Plainsmen.
Okay here's my take:
New England- what you'd expect: Me, Vt, NH, Mass, RI, and maybe Ct
Northeast: Ny, Nj, Pency, western Md, Del, northern Va. Fla south of Ocala, Ohio (eastern 1/3)
SE: Rest of Va (S. of Petersburg), eastern Md, NC, SC, GA, Ala, Miss, La, Fla north of Ocala. Tn, Eastern Ky. WVa, and Ohio (s. of Columbus and w. of Zanesville), E. Texas . Missouri (s. of I-70)
Midwest (southern): Ill (south of Champaign), Indiana ( outside of Chitown metro and Mi border co's), rest of Ohio. Mo north of I-70., W. Ky.
Midwest (northern) Dakotas, Mn, Wi, N. Ill, Ia, Lake and Porter Cos in Indiana along with Mi border Co's., Mi
SW: rest of Tx, Okla, NM, Az, southern Utah.
Intermontane: Colo, Wy, Mt, rest of Ut, Nevada (except for Vegas and Reno). E. Wa and Ore
California: San Fran south, and throw in Vegas and Reno.
PNW: N. Calif, Ore and Wa. (w. of Cascades)
Alaska and Hawaii are their own entities.
My best guess.
HA HA ! I Loved how you put Southern FL in the Northeast. That is soo true. And NOVA too. They may be South, but just not Southern, lol.
The South starts Fredericksburg on though, in Virginia. IMO, anyway. Cant have the South without 'ol Richmond.
I always heard Texans were Southerners until they hit the Balcones Escarpment- where they became Plainsmen.
The thing is, these Texans who became "Plainsmen" were overwhelmingly settlers from the southeastern states (including East Texas). Essentially what they did was move the Old South "west." I mean, did these Deep South folks "lose" their culture and way of life just because they entered a new frontier? Of course not, and that is why even most of West Texas is essentially Southern in terms of regional affiliation. Those who inhabit it are decendents of southeastern pioneers...
The thing is, these Texans who became "Plainsmen" were overwhelmingly settlers from the southeastern states (including East Texas). Essentially what they did was move the Old South "west." I mean, did these Deep South folks "lose" their culture and way of life just because they entered a new frontier? Of course not, and that is why even most of West Texas is essentially Southern in terms of regional affiliation. Those who inhabit it are decendents of southeastern pioneers...
TexasReb,
Im sure there are many Southern areas of Texas- especially east Texas- and I didnt mean to call it something its not.
Im only talking about the Texans I have known personally who adamantly tell me they are not Southrons, but Westerners. To be fair- Texas was part of the Great divide and considered 'Western Territory". It was settled by Sam Houstoun- A Virgiinan from the Shenandoah Valley, with the Virginians they brought the Southern culture and ways of life to Texas. So indeed Texas does have many Southern qualities
Also Texas was in the Confederacy- so by default it has that.
Visit Deep East Texas --a little town called Jefferson would be a great first stop-- and tell me it's not got southern influence. Please, I dare you! Once again, let's consider that map, shall we?
*grins* You fight dirty, Houstoner! Take a little pity, now!
But seriously, you nailed 'er down, my friend and fellow Texan.
East Texas, particularly the Jefferson area, is pure Old Deep South! If not for license plates and state highway markers, it would be hard to tell one wasn't in Mississippi or Alabama. AND (we vacation at Caddo Lake every year) I have had residents of the same tell me the same!
*grins* You fight dirty, Houstoner! Take a little pity, now!
But seriously, you nailed 'er down, my friend and fellow Texan.
East Texas, particularly the Jefferson area, is pure Old Deep South! If not for license plates and state highway markers, it would be hard to tell one wasn't in Mississippi or Alabama. AND (we vacation at Caddo Lake every year) I have had residents of the same tell me the same!
IMO- AND i mean this as compliment, the culture of Texas is too distinct just to call it 'Southern". Texas has its own thing going on. And I think its much more unique and can't be put into a box. Just my 2 cents.
TexasReb,
Im sure there are many Southern areas of Texas- especially east Texas- and I didnt mean to call it something its not.
Im only talking about the Texans I have known personally who adamantly tell me they are not Southrons, but Westerners. To be fair- Texas was part of the Great divide and considered 'Western Territory". It was settled by Sam Houstoun- A Virgiinan from the Shenandoah Valley, with the Virginians they brought the Southern culture and ways of life to Texas. So indeed Texas does have many Southern qualities
Also Texas was in the Confederacy- so by default it has that.
Thanks for your courteous reply, Bluva! I mean that sincerely.
As to the Southern/Western thing? Well, I can only refer you back to the study I cited as to where most Texans (at least by this almost decade long survey) consider themselves to live and what they consider themselves to be in terms of regional affiliation.
Here is another one when, a choice was actually given (that is, not a simple "do you live in the South" and "do you consider yourself a "Southerner") type thing...but a choice of regions (that is to say, Texans chosing between South and West, Virginians chosing between South and East, etc):
Percentage who chose "South" as their regional affiliation when given choice of "South, West, East, Midwest"
More than 50%: 1. Arkansas – 56/77 – 72.73% 2. South Carolina – 66/91 – 72.53% 3. Texas – 526/739 – 71.18% 4. North Carolina – 87/145 – 60%
Less than half: 1. Kentucky – 112/234 – 47.86% 2. Virginia – 84/343 – 24.5% 3. Oklahoma – 32/207 – 15.46% 4.
*********
Now, I am sure this particular study had serious flaws in it, like most do...but studies of the same nature (as in where the use of "y'all" or "coke" is most prevelant) have a coorelation about them in terms of percentages.
I cannot emphasize enough that I consider Virginia a Southern state, and probably the patriarch of the South. I am just saying that it really does come across a bit high-falutin' and ridiculous to for a Virginian to presume to exclude Texas.
Also, much as I appreciate the contribution of Virginians to Texas history (as you say, Sam Houston), it was really Tennesseans and Alabamans (and to a bit lesser extent, Mississippians) who furnished the greatest number of original settlers...
IMO- AND i mean this as compliment, the culture of Texas is too distinct just to call it 'Southern". Texas has its own thing going on. And I think its much more unique and can't be put into a box. Just my 2 cents.
Well, sure it is. And I appreciate and agree with this! One will search far and wide to find a Texan who will not first and foremost agree that Texas is TEXAS! LOL
However, like any other state, it has to be placed in a region of other states. And Texas is, as a whole, essentially Southern. Not a typical Southern state (whatever is meant by that) by any means. BUT...by and large...as relates to history and culture, basically Southern....
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Of course not, and that is why even most of West Texas is essentially Southern in terms of regional affiliation. Those who inhabit it are decendents of southeastern pioneers...
