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Old 01-01-2013, 12:09 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,121,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkeplinger View Post
Coming from a southerner's perspective, Id ont' consider Maryland, DC, or Delaware southern.
And everyone I've ever met from those states/district doesn't consider themselves southern, either.
That is a good point. I have always thought that one of the best definitions of a region is that of self-identification with the region. And in this case, a majority of people from Maryland and Delaware do not consider themselves to live in the South nor think of themselves as Southerner.

I realize that, to a large extent, "The South" and being "Southern" is a state of mind. And yeah, I don't doubt there are people from Maryland and Delaware that are "more Southern" (by that criteria) than some type from Mississippi and Alabama, who hate their own Southern heritage. And I have met them (and I want to say for the record, there is nothing more deserving of contempt than someone who disdains their own roots and birthrights...)

Whatever, here is the study itself:

*******************************************

WHERE IS THE SOUTH?

The South has been defined by a great many characteristics, but one of the most interesting definitions is where people believe that they are in the South. A related definition is where the residents consider themselves to be southerners, although this is obviously affected by the presence of non-southern migrants.

Until recently we did not have the data to answer the question of where either of those conditions is met. Since 1992, however, 14 twice-yearly Southern Focus Polls conducted by the Institute for Research in Social Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have asked respondents from the 11 former Confederate states, Kentucky, and Oklahoma "Just for the record, would you say that your community is in the South, or not?" Starting with the third of the series, the same question was asked of smaller samples of respondents from West Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, the District of Columbia, and Missouri (all except Missouri included in the Bureau of the Census's "South"). Respondents from the 13 southern states were also asked "Do you consider yourself a Southerner, or not?," while starting with the second survey those from other states were asked "Do you consider yourself or anyone in your family a Southerner?," and if so, whether they considered themselves to be Southerners.

It is clear from these data that if the point is to isolate southerners for study or to compare them to other Americans the definition of the South employed by the Southern Focus Poll (and, incidentally, by the Gallup Organization) makes sense, while the Bureau of the Census definiton does not. We already knew that, of course, but it's good to be able to document it.

--John Shelton Reed

Percent who say their community is in the South (percentage base in parentheses)

Alabama 98 (717) South Carolina 98 (553) Louisiana 97 (606) Mississippi 97 (431) Georgia 97 (1017) Tennessee 97 (838) North Carolina 93 (1292) Arkansas 92 (400) Florida 90 (1792) Texas 84 (2050) Virginia 82 (1014) Kentucky 79 (582) Oklahoma 69 (411)

West Virginia 45 (82) Maryland 40 (173) Missouri 23 (177) Delaware 14 (21) D.C. 7 (15)

Percent who say they are Southerners (percentage base in parentheses)

Mississippi 90 (432) Louisiana 89 (606) Alabama 88 (716) Tennessee 84 (838) South Carolina 82 (553) Arkansas 81 (399) Georgia 81 (1017) North Carolina 80 (1290) Texas 68 (2053) Kentucky 68 (584) Virginia 60 (1012) Oklahoma 53 (410) Florida 51 (1791)

West Virginia 25 (84) Maryland 19 (192) Missouri 15 (197) New Mexico 13 (68) Delaware 12 (25) D.C. 12 (16) Utah 11 (70) Indiana 10 (208) Illinois 9 (362) Ohio 8 (396) Arizona 7 (117) Michigan 6 (336)

All others less than 6 percent.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:27 PM
 
97 posts, read 157,643 times
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What can Dover, Delaware, and El Paso, Texas, possibly have in common?
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Hampton Roads, VA.
867 posts, read 1,088,722 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Maryland and Delaware fit better on a map with the northeast than they do with the south. Both of these states I would consider to be Northeastern from a modern-day standpoint. Both have way more in common with Pennsylvania today than Virginia.
How do you figure? On the Moco/Pg side they condsider themselves one with DC and NOVA culturally/aesthetically. Seaford DE...better yet DELMARVA (the original DMV) speaks for itself. Baltimore shares alot of words with DC and some accented words with Philly. The cultural highway from Philly to DE to MD/VA is VERY much related.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,230,797 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Cities Southsider View Post
How do you figure? On the Moco/Pg side they condsider themselves one with DC and NOVA culturally/aesthetically. Seaford DE...better yet DELMARVA (the original DMV) speaks for itself. Baltimore shares alot of words with DC and some accented words with Philly. The cultural highway from Philly to DE to MD/VA is VERY much related.
Culturally, demographically, and linguistically, Maryland and Delaware have more in common with PEnnsylvania and New JErsey...save southern Maryland (south of D.C.) which I agree shares more in common with Virginia.

NOVA is very different from the rest of Virginia...it might as well be considered part of the Northeast.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:00 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,121,427 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baybie Alyssa View Post
What can Dover, Delaware, and El Paso, Texas, possibly have in common?
Probably that not many in either consider themselves to live in the South, or think of themselves as Southerners! LOL Although, strictly speaking, El Paso was part of the Confederacy, and residents voted for secession!

But seriously, in the survey above, the trans-pecos area of Texas was the noteable exception to the rule, in that most in that area identified more with the West than the South. Not particularly suprising, I don't think....
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Hampton Roads, VA.
867 posts, read 1,088,722 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Culturally, demographically, and linguistically, Maryland and Delaware have more in common with PEnnsylvania and New JErsey...save southern Maryland (south of D.C.) which I agree shares more in common with Virginia.

NOVA is very different from the rest of Virginia...it might as well be considered part of the Northeast.
Listen...I was born in Maryland and raised in Norfolk Va. since I was two. Town Centers and transplants do not make Northern Virgina the -Northeast-. Its different than the rest of Virginia? So is Richmond...so is HAMPTON ROADS...so is Lynchburg...so is Danville...so is Emporia...Accomac...Chincoteague...Nassawadox...et c. Smh. Several parts of all those sprawled out suburbs in MD border/touch Virginia in places more than once MOCO-LOCO-Fairfax-AVA-PGC. Southern MD? What about Western MD? What about E.Shore (DelMarVa)? They all coincide with those parts of the neighboring state. MD.VA. I been travelin up and down 13 before half of "Nova" was even built and up and down 295 when "Northern Virginia" was only respected as Alexandria and Fairfax. These areas are Mid-Atlantic thru and thru and DC is too. They are Southern historically and Mid-Atlantic in REALITY. They are not "northern" northern as in NY/Newark/Boston(Up top)...please. They are north of here but they arent the "Northeast". Transplants think history starts when they get here. SMH. And the nit-wits embarassed by their southern history because "it aint cool " are in the way.

My family extends all threw these areas Philly/MD/VA...we are going to share several things culturally. I am not the only one like that either...several black people from these areas run the same circles Philly/MD/VA---DC/MD/VA etc. Ill give you North Delaware having more in common( as far as looking up to) Philly and S.Jerz but from what my cousin says its millions of illegals in Delaware and there are several native Delawareans who have made their way down here-- HR. I have three cousins who where born/grew up here and moved up to DE to be closer to their mothers family ...they gave me the skimmy over the holidays when they came down with 8 of my cousins from MD. Family members traveling these areas arent the same type of "transplants" in my book. DelMarVa has been around before I was born and in Salisbury the news covers from Most of DE to Chincoteague. They share little in common with Penn or JerZ unless you talkin bout Glassboro NJ..Clayton NJ...Vineland NJ. etc. but not linguistically.They named their state after a VA. gov. for cryin out loud.


BTW this is not a rant as I see you have said "it might as well be considered the Northeast"...Im just sayin though...

Last edited by 757Cities Southsider; 01-01-2013 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:05 PM
 
Location: NC
1,177 posts, read 2,218,570 times
Reputation: 787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baybie Alyssa View Post
What can Dover, Delaware, and El Paso, Texas, possibly have in common?
What can Augusta, Maine and Washington, DC possibly have in common?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,230,797 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by 757Cities Southsider View Post
Listen...I was born in Maryland and raised in Norfolk Va. since I was two. Town Centers and transplants do not make Northern Virgina the -Northeast-. Its different than the rest of Virginia? So is Richmond...so is HAMPTON ROADS...so is Lynchburg...so is Danville...so is Emporia...Accomac...Chincoteague...Nassawadox...et c. Smh. Several parts of all those sprawled out suburbs in MD border/touch Virginia in places more than once MOCO-LOCO-Fairfax-AVA-PGC. Southern MD? What about Western MD? What about E.Shore (DelMarVa)? They all coincide with those parts of the neighboring state. MD.VA. I been travelin up and down 13 before half of "Nova" was even built and up and down 295 when "Northern Virginia" was only respected as Alexandria and Fairfax. These areas are Mid-Atlantic thru and thru and DC is too. They are Southern historically and Mid-Atlantic in REALITY. They are not "northern" northern as in NY/Newark/Boston(Up top)...please. They are north of here but they arent the "Northeast". Transplants think history starts when they get here. SMH. And the nit-wits embarassed by their southern history because "it aint cool " are in the way.

My family extends all threw these areas Philly/MD/VA...we are going to share several things culturally. I am not the only one like that either...several black people from these areas run the same circles Philly/MD/VA---DC/MD/VA etc. Ill give you North Delaware having more in common( as far as looking up to) Philly and S.Jerz but from what my cousin says its millions of illegals in Delaware and there are several native Delawareans who have made their way down here-- HR. I have three cousins who where born/grew up here and moved up to DE to be closer to their mothers family ...they gave me the skimmy over the holidays when they came down with 8 of my cousins from MD. Family members traveling these areas arent the same type of "transplants" in my book. DelMarVa has been around before I was born and in Salisbury the news covers from Most of DE to Chincoteague. They share little in common with Penn or JerZ unless you talkin bout Glassboro NJ..Clayton NJ...Vineland NJ. etc. but not linguistically.They named their state after a VA. gov. for cryin out loud.


BTW this is not a rant as I see you have said "it might as well be considered the Northeast"...Im just sayin though...
Wow...first off, take your medication. Second off, most of Maryland and Delaware have more of a cultural, demographic, political, and linguistic affiliation to New Jersey and Pennsylvania than to Virginia FROM A MODERN STANDPOINT. I agree that if you factor in things like pre-Civil history, this becomes a much grayer area. But I would never, EVER associate most of Maryland and Delaware with the south from a modern standpoint. Baltimore and D.C. have a lot more in common with Philly than with Richmond. And also, Delaware and Maryland are such small states, and NOVA more like the Northeast than the south, that to say Richmond is a better comparison is just truly ridiculous. I will add that I have relatives who live in Washington D.C. who are very familiar with Maryland and Delaware. Both agree that the rest of Virginia outside of NOVA is not like the majority of MD and DE. MD and DE are Northeastern for all intents and purposes from a modern standpoint.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,472,879 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofaque86 View Post
What can Augusta, Maine and Washington, DC possibly have in common?
A lot more in common than Dover, DE and El Paso, TX would have. I think the distances speak for themselves.

Driving distance:
Washington DC to Augusta, Maine (596 miles)

Dover, Delaware to El Paso, Texas (2,060 miles)
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:49 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,807,955 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Maryland and Delaware fit better on a map with the northeast than they do with the south. Both of these states I would consider to be Northeastern from a modern-day standpoint. Both have way more in common with Pennsylvania today than Virginia.
However your opinion about Maryland can not ever dictate against the Fact that Maryland is a Southern State.....
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