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Old 09-01-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That doesn't make any sense. Are you still in high school, man?

There are no discernible differences in voting and cultural patterns among African Americans all over the country. I mean, name one majority African American district in the country that Barack Obama lost this past election cycle? Aside from more superficial differences (style, speech patterns, etc.), African Americans all over the nation largely vote the same (about 90-95% Democratic), eat the same foods, are more religious than average, have similar attitudes towards same sex marriage, etc. There are no fundamental differences between blacks in Chicago and blacks in Los Angeles.

But there are fundamental differences between a Mexican-American hotel worker in Las Vegas and an Irish firefighter in Lowell, Massachusetts (maybe you can't tell though). That's why it makes sense to distinguish Hispanic Catholics from white ethnic Catholics. Duh.
By African American you do release that I'm including African, Caribbean, and other Afro-decendant groups in America. Not sure if you are referring to just Black Americans who are the direct descendants of American slaves.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
The White population in the South was historically English and Scotch Irish. Germans largely settled in States like Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, etc. They would later spread out to areas in the Midwest(which are also Northern states as well). Of course demographics can change overtime but that still doesn't change the historical aspects and facts.
Do you want to provide some data? I've already provided data showing that New Jersey is about as German as South Carolina. I'm not sure what your problem is. I'll just chalk it up to living a sheltered Montgomery County life where your parents had you safely chained away in attic away from the real world, and most importantly, that big bad city called Philadelphia.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
By African American you do release that I'm including African, Caribbean, and other Afro-decendant groups in America. Not sure if you are referring to just Black Americans who are the direct descendants of American slaves.
You can include those populations if you want. West Indians/Africans are less than 5 percent of the black population anyway. It still doesn't change my point that distinguishing white Catholics from Hispanic Catholics makes a hell of a lot more sense because those two groups are completely different culturally, politically and even linguistically.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Do you want to provide some data? I've already provided data showing that New Jersey is about as German as South Carolina. I'm not sure what your problem is. I'll just chalk it up to living a sheltered Montgomery County life where your parents had you safely chained away in attic away from the real world, and most importantly, that big bad city called Philadelphia.
You had me dying with that Montgomery County comment. Though I have lived in other states I don't hate my hometown of Philadelphia. "Big bad city", BajanYankee your too funny.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
You had me dying with that Montgomery County comment. Though I have lived in other states I don't hate my hometown of Philadelphia. "Big bad city", BajanYankee your too funny.
You're not from Philadelphia. Since when were places like Norristown, Radnor and Ardmore part of Philadelphia?

You didn't even go to high school in the city by your own admission. So you might as well be from some other city. Like Houston.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You're not from Philadelphia. Since when were places like Norristown, Radnor and Ardmore part of Philadelphia?

You didn't even go to high school in the city by your own admission. So you might as well be from some other city. Like Houston.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Some of the North had heavy German immigration. Others didn't. German immigrants tended to be the most rural of the larger immigrants, and spread more across the country earlier away from the larger cities. So it's not too surprising that the south has some German descended population. But I suspect it has few other "white ethnic" groups. In % of white population descended from say immigrants from the 19th century and later, I suspect most of the south would rank low compared to the north. New England may have relatively few Germans, but it has a high number of other groups (Irish, French Canadians, Italians and several more).

Not sure how you'd find those numbers.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:51 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's not "picking and choosing" because "Catholic" is usually a proxy for "white ethnic." When Chris Matthews talks about "Catholics" resisting Obama, he's not talking about Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans (which Obama won quite easily). He's talking about Italians, Irish and other ethnic whites that were (are) lukewarm about him. If you compare voting patterns among "Catholics" in Staten Island and the Bronx, you get two completely different pictures.
Although, it's possible Obama did better among the "white ethnics" than the Catholic vote would suggest. The ones that don't identify or observe much as Catholic were also more likely to vote Democrat. And of course, there are regional differences. A Catholic firefighter in Lowell, Massachusetts is more likely to vote Democrat than one in say, Ohio.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Although, it's possible Obama did better among the "white ethnics" than the Catholic vote would suggest. The ones that don't identify or observe much as Catholic were also more likely to vote Democrat.
I don't deny that. My only point was that the "Catholic" vote today has a very different character and composition from what it has had traditionally. There used to be a time when the "Catholic vote" was nearly synonymous with blue collar, ethnic whites in predominantly urban areas in the Northeast and Midwest. That's less true today as Hispanics comprise a far greater percentage of American Catholics than they did 50 years ago. And there are fundamental differences between these two groups on a variety of issues ranging from immigration to affirmative action. This is an important distinction to make, but people rarely make it.

So when people say that "Maryland is Catholic," we need to be clear on whether we mean "Catholic like New Jersey" or "Catholic like California." Those are two very different types of Catholics with different values, histories, beliefs and often a different language. You wouldn't campaign in the Bronx the same way you would in Staten Island. The political significance of this distinction cannot be understated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And of course, there are regional differences. A Catholic firefighter in Lowell, Massachusetts is more likely to vote Democrat than one in say, Ohio.
What's interesting is that the "Catholic vote" in Massachusetts has trended towards Republicans in the past few election cycles. In 2004, George W. Bush won 49 percent of Massachusetts' Catholics, which seems quite ridiculous compared to voting patterns just a decade earlier. Bush won 55% of the Catholic vote in Ohio that year.

CNN.com Election 2004

CNN.com Election 2004

Obama did better among Catholics than Kerry did in 2004, but we have no way of knowing whether that was because white Catholics came back into the Democratic fold or because Hispanics became a larger share of the Commonwealth's electorate. My suspicion is a combination of both--a bad economy causing white Catholics to side with Obama and a growing Hispanic population that's becoming increasingly Democratic in the face of Republican anti-immigration rhetoric. It's very possible that there's no material difference between white Catholic voters in MA and OH, particularly in light of the fact that the latter has no significant population of non-white Catholics (i.e., Hispanics and Filipinos) that can bias the "Catholic" vote upwards.

I do acknowledge, however, that there's a difference between the more religious Catholics and more secular Catholics. But my guess is that a Catholic firefighter in Lowell and a Catholic firefighter in Cuyahoga County would vote similarly in national contests. Democratic support among Catholics is softening in general, but it is softening especially among white Catholic men. It's really white women, Hispanics and African Americans that make up the key constituencies within the Democractic party in the 21st Century.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,269 posts, read 26,269,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Some of the North had heavy German immigration. Others didn't. German immigrants tended to be the most rural of the larger immigrants, and spread more across the country earlier away from the larger cities. So it's not too surprising that the south has some German descended population.
The South also has a decent bit of Irish descended population. And I mean "Irish," not Scots-Irish who are numerically much smaller than Irish and German descended people in states like North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia (contrary to widely held belief). The people that settled most states, and the original 13 colonies in particular, were a hodgepodge of ethnicities from all over Europe. It's just that some groups concentrated in some regions more than they did in others (Germans in the Midwest, Italians in the Northeast, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
But I suspect it has few other "white ethnic" groups. In % of white population descended from say immigrants from the 19th century and later, I suspect most of the south would rank low compared to the north. New England may have relatively few Germans, but it has a high number of other groups (Irish, French Canadians, Italians and several more).
We know this by just doing the math. Take a look at the following. I'll use a traditional northeastern state (PA) and a traditional southern state (SC) as benchmarks. I'll compare Maryland to these states and the national average.

Italian:
Maryland - 5.08%
Pennsylvania - 12.22%
South Carolina - 2.8%
National Avg. - 5.9%

Difference between MD and PA = -7.14
Difference between MD and SC = 2.28
Difference between MD and National Avg. = -0.82

Irish:
Maryland - 11.59%
Pennsylvania - 17.53%
South Carolina - 9.53%
National Avg. - 11.90%

Difference between MD and PA = -5.94
Difference between MD and SC = 2.06
Difference between MD and Avg. = -0.31

Polish:
Maryland - 3.27%
Pennsylvania - 6.65%
South Carolina - 1.25%
National Avg. - 3%

Difference between MD and PA = -3.38
Difference between MD and SC = 2.02
Difference between MD and Avg = 0.27

As you can see, Maryland falls well below the national average with respect to Italians, just below the national average for Irish, and just above the national average with respect to Poles. With respect to all three ethnic groups, Maryland's white ethnic makeup is actually more similar to South Carolina's than it is to Pennsylvania's. The big difference between Maryland and South Carolina is the considerably larger Jewish population in the former (around 4.3%).

I didn't bother with the figures for Greeks because the populations in all of these states is very small (about 35,000 in MD vs 16,000 in SC).

The percentages for NJ, NY, CT, RI, and MA will undoubtedly be higher for all of these groups. And since these states make up the lion's share of the population in the Northeast, I don't see any point in tabulating percentages for Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.
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