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Old 10-06-2008, 11:12 AM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,058,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
That's what he's talking about. Personally, most urban enthusiasts hate malls and I do as well. Leave those to the suburbs. But the best shopping districts are street front stores. That's me though

Thanks, Spade! At least you understood my point!
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JMT View Post
It's funny how this thread has devolved into a discussion of what cities have the best MALLS. It's entirely possible (and to me, preferable) to have a great shopping experience without ever setting foot inside a mall.

I mean, let's face it, a mall in Dallas has pretty much the same stores and the same food court as a mall in Atlanta or Denver or Seattle. Even the anchor stores carry pretty much the same styles of clothing, the same brands of perfume, the same luggage, etc.

Even though I live in a city that loves malls and power centers, I much prefer shopping in places like NYC or Chicago. Or, my favorites, Paris and Hong Kong (although HK has malls that are bigger than many American cities, it's still got a gazillion street-level shops).

And the best dining options? No question about it, it would have to be NYC, Chicago, New Orleans, San Francisco, maybe even Miami and Boston. But if your idea of "good dining options" is the number of Applebees, Chilis and Olive Gardens, then yeah I guess faux trendy places like Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, et al, would be good options.
Excellent points! A couple years ago we found ourselves in the western suburbs of Atlanta. We needed to buy something, so were directed to go to a large mall near our motel. What struck me about the place was how very much it looked like the mall we are forced to shop at in suburban Minneapolis/St Paul. Same stores, same muzak, same cars in the same sprawling parking lot, same food court choices, same clothes on the same looking people! Malls really are interchangable, aren't they?

Several years ago when we first moved into our city neighborhood in St Paul, there was a major department store (Carson Peiry Scott) just a few blcoks from our house. It was free-standing, with multiple levels. It was surrounded by a parking lot, but I could easily walk to it if I needed a new shirt, socks, gift for the wife, etc. About 10 years ago it closed, was razed and replaced by a Barnes & Noble/Chipolte duo. Across the parking lot, they put up a Noodles & Co., an Old Country Buffet and a Jenny Craig Wieght Loss Place . Now when I need a pair of socks, I have to get in the car and drive 9 miles to the mall (the one that looks like the mall in Atlanta).. Or I can drive 6 miles to Mall of America and fight the crowds. The walk from my car to the store is often farther than it was to walk from my house to the old Carson's.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:13 PM
 
11,895 posts, read 32,938,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluke65780 View Post
Actually your very wrong, Dallas has more stores than Atlanta,Denver and Seattle. Maybe you should research before you make statements like that.
Dallas may have more stores--it is larger than Atlanta, Denver, or Seattle--but it's certainly not a bigger variety of stores. It's just more of the same. A mall is a mall is a mall. Whether a city has one Nordstrom or a dozen, it's still the same store selling pretty much the same stuff as every other Nordstrom on the planet, more or less. The architecture may be different, but the goods are the same.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Houston
6,867 posts, read 12,818,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
1. No way is Sharptstown or Greenspoint an urban jungle. You want an urban jungle? Try Georgetown in DC or Lincoln Park in Chicago. Try ANY hood in New York City or San Francisco. Heck, try Montrose or Rice area in Houston. That is much more urban than those Sharpstown or Greenspoint. Sharpstown and Greenspoint aren't in any way urban. Just because you see alot of cars driving down there does not make it urban.

2. You can find quotes where I said I like Houston and I could easily live there. You CANNOT however on this forum find any quotes that state that I dislike Houston. I have stuck up for Houston all the time on these boards. I've stated the pros and cons about Houston and one of the cons is exactly what we are talking about and unfortunately that is urbanity. It's not the most urban of cities because of it's low density, it's appreciation of big box stores and strip malls, and it's underdeveloped mass transit system for a city it's size. But do not think I am always dumping on the city because that is truly not the case.
Have you ever been to Greenspoint or Sharpstown? Those places are not suburban. It's ridiculous that you are even saying that. But I guess nothing I say will change your mind about that so I give up.

I really don't know why you think you know more about Houston than I do. I've lived here a little over 20 years now. I lived in the Sharpstown area for 2 years and then moved Uptown a year ago and I can tell you that my experience in Sharpstown was definitely not suburban. Maybe we just have a different perspective of what suburban and urban are. As for Greenspoint, you would think you were driving into a small city when approaching it. It has a more dramatic skylines than alot of cities i've been to. The workforce in Greenspoint is huge! It has one of the largest concentration of workers in the Houston area and same goes for Westchase. I'm not sure about the workforce in Sharpstown but it's a very dense area. The only area within the city limits that I would call suburban would be Kingwood and that's because Houston annexed that area back in the 90s I believe. All the rest of Houston is very dense.

alright I'm done.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,698,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
Have you ever been to Greenspoint or Sharpstown? Those places are not suburban. It's ridiculous that you are even saying that. But I guess nothing I say will change your mind about that so I give up.

I really don't know why you think you know more about Houston than I do. I've lived here a little over 20 years now. I lived in the Sharpstown area for 2 years and then moved Uptown a year ago and I can tell you that my experience in Sharpstown was definitely not suburban. Maybe we just have a different perspective of what suburban and urban are. As for Greenspoint, you would think you were driving into a small city when approaching it. It has a more dramatic skylines than alot of cities i've been to. The workforce in Greenspoint is huge! It has one of the largest concentration of workers in the Houston area and same goes for Westchase. I'm not sure about the workforce in Sharpstown but it's a very dense area. The only area within the city limits that I would call suburban would be Kingwood and that's because Houston annexed that area back in the 90s I believe. All the rest of Houston is very dense.

alright I'm done.
Greenspoint and sharpstown are very suburban. Just because those areas have a couple of tall buildings dosen't make them urban. You just can't compare those areas to Downtown Houston or TMC.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,698,355 times
Reputation: 7281
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT View Post
Dallas may have more stores--it is larger than Atlanta, Denver, or Seattle--but it's certainly not a bigger variety of stores. It's just more of the same. A mall is a mall is a mall. Whether a city has one Nordstrom or a dozen, it's still the same store selling pretty much the same stuff as every other Nordstrom on the planet, more or less. The architecture may be different, but the goods are the same.
That's the problem....it does have a bigger variety than those cities. Dallas is an upcoming fashion district, especially with its trade district exceeding 5 million with people coming in from OK and TX to shop. Dallas and Miami are usually the first cities to get major upscale stores because of how many shoppers these cities attract.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,643 posts, read 27,082,820 times
Reputation: 9580
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
Have you ever been to Greenspoint or Sharpstown? Those places are not suburban. It's ridiculous that you are even saying that. But I guess nothing I say will change your mind about that so I give up.

I really don't know why you think you know more about Houston than I do. I've lived here a little over 20 years now. I lived in the Sharpstown area for 2 years and then moved Uptown a year ago and I can tell you that my experience in Sharpstown was definitely not suburban. Maybe we just have a different perspective of what suburban and urban are. As for Greenspoint, you would think you were driving into a small city when approaching it. It has a more dramatic skylines than alot of cities i've been to. The workforce in Greenspoint is huge! It has one of the largest concentration of workers in the Houston area and same goes for Westchase. I'm not sure about the workforce in Sharpstown but it's a very dense area. The only area within the city limits that I would call suburban would be Kingwood and that's because Houston annexed that area back in the 90s I believe. All the rest of Houston is very dense.

alright I'm done.
All the rest of Houston is very dense? The stats tell a different story. The majority of Houston is low density and the city is one of the lowest density areas in the nation. Not Houston fault. Just that it experienced it's greatest growth post WW2 which is when the suburban development took off. But I must echo what jluke said. Just because you see a couple of tall buildings does not make it urban. Washington DC has no tall buildings. But it is more urban and more dense than Houston. Urban areas are based on the street. Not in the air. Now, I'm glad to see the inner loop build towards that entire environment and if I ever DO move to Houston. The inner loop is the place I would be. Everyone else can have the outer loop.
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Houston
6,867 posts, read 12,818,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
All the rest of Houston is very dense? The stats tell a different story. The majority of Houston is low density and the city is one of the lowest density areas in the nation. Not Houston fault. Just that it experienced it's greatest growth post WW2 which is when the suburban development took off. But I must echo what jluke said. Just because you see a couple of tall buildings does not make it urban. Washington DC has no tall buildings. But it is more urban and more dense than Houston. Urban areas are based on the street. Not in the air. Now, I'm glad to see the inner loop build towards that entire environment and if I ever DO move to Houston. The inner loop is the place I would be. Everyone else can have the outer loop.
Here are few Greenspoint facts for you:

-18 million square feet of commercial development
-Highest concentration of hotel rooms in Houston (9,600)
-Home of Bush Intercontinental Airport
-70,000 employees work in Greenspoint
-Nearly 100,000 people live in Greenspoint


by the way, i hope your not taking my reply's the wrong way. i'm not trying to fight with you. just defending the city i love.

This is what i know about Sharpstown:

-Home of Houston Baptist University
-Location of Houston's new unofficial Chinatown
-Thousands of Middle Eastern shops and restaurants (location of Harwin)
-Location of Channel 2 News station and 39 The CW News Station

Westchase District facts:

-500,000 people live in Westchase
-56,000 people work in Westchase
-1,500 businesses are located in Westchase (including Haliburton, Chevron, Dow Chemical, and BMC Software)

Last edited by westhou; 10-06-2008 at 10:22 PM..
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:05 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,058,730 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
Here are few Greenspoint facts for you:

-18 million square feet of commercial development
-Highest concentration of hotel rooms in Houston (9,600)
-Home of Bush Intercontinental Airport
-70,000 employees work in Greenspoint
-Nearly 100,000 people live in Greenspoint


by the way, i hope your not taking my reply's the wrong way. i'm not trying to fight with you. just defending the city i love.

This is what i know about Sharpstown:

-Home of Houston Baptist University
-Location of Houston's new unofficial Chinatown
-Thousands of Middle Eastern shops and restaurants (location of Harwin)
-Location of Channel 2 News station and 39 The CW News Station

Westchase District facts:

-500,000 people live in Westchase
-56,000 people work in Westchase
-1,500 businesses are located in Westchase (including Haliburton, Chevron, Dow Chemical, and BMC Software)
Thes facts have nothing to do with whether an area is urban or suburban. (I have no dog in this fight, I've never been to Sharpstown or Greenspoint)
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:53 PM
 
1,992 posts, read 6,037,027 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by westhou View Post
Here are few Greenspoint facts for you:

-18 million square feet of commercial development
-Highest concentration of hotel rooms in Houston (9,600)
-Home of Bush Intercontinental Airport
-70,000 employees work in Greenspoint
-Nearly 100,000 people live in Greenspoint


by the way, i hope your not taking my reply's the wrong way. i'm not trying to fight with you. just defending the city i love.

This is what i know about Sharpstown:

-Home of Houston Baptist University
-Location of Houston's new unofficial Chinatown
-Thousands of Middle Eastern shops and restaurants (location of Harwin)
-Location of Channel 2 News station and 39 The CW News Station

Westchase District facts:

-500,000 people live in Westchase
-56,000 people work in Westchase
-1,500 businesses are located in Westchase (including Haliburton, Chevron, Dow Chemical, and BMC Software)
Here are some images I found of Greenspoint (they were taken by a forum member on what might be considered a competing site, so I can't link directly to the collection). These shots make it look like a very low density, office park district, with very little urban cohesion or walkable areas.











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