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Old 09-29-2008, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
835 posts, read 1,196,033 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
I understand ya' My dear Scranbarre..........( LOL) but this is a deeper problem then what your mentioning. I understand your points, totally.........agree with a bunch too.
But, read the about the depression. Yikes, do you want that? I'm very mad at the bankers who did this.....( part of the problem in 1929 also) You don't want your fellow man having to live in another Depression in America. I know you don't.......
I'd like it in the works that the banks have to in the long run pay this all back........( few million a week is ok, I'll take payments)
And.... no paying the big-wigs a tidy sum. We have to sign something, or we're done.......
Corartist HI, and is Dan still here..........another name perhaps?

You do realize that the 1929 stock market crash was on its way to recovery until the 1930's debt came a calling. Between 1926-1929 the debt of US citizens went from $1.38bn to $3bn. Other than the wealthy nothing was owned as it was all bought on installments....people couldn't afford to pay their notes and therefore had to return cars, without cars no fuel was needed, no tires, no mechanic and so on down the line. Govt. intervention sealed the deal on the The Great Depression and yet the market had started to recover.....history should not be allowed to repeat. This is an over simplified look at the Great Depression but the moral should still be clear….don’t buy what you can’t afford and don’t let the government get involved….the private sector can adjust and recover if left alone.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:40 PM
 
2,317 posts, read 4,638,719 times
Reputation: 1248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summering View Post
Ok time for jammies.... a good book.... and some faith.........
I'll start filling up the basement tomorrow for the financial Armageddon
make sure the basement is stocked with the oatmeal cookies....
http://bestsmileys.com/eating1/23.gif (broken link)
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,184 posts, read 67,327,076 times
Reputation: 15830
Quote:
Originally Posted by coartist88 View Post
make sure the basement is stocked with the oatmeal cookies....
...and some awesome sweet potato fries from the State Street Grill in Clarks Summit!
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:52 PM
 
2,833 posts, read 9,785,245 times
Reputation: 1658
I personally think it takes A LOT of life experience to realize what puts people in debt. Being responsible for yourself is different than being responsible for an entire family. I have seen it happen to many people...the vast majority of it is not buying that thing you 'want' at the big box store when you can't afford it. There are some real life situations that cause debt:
Medical Bills
Dental Bills
Funerals
car repairs
home repairs (not cosmetic...)
college tuition
helping other family members in desperate situations.
Filling up the oil tank.
The list goes on.....

A very small minority are those who had 'creative financing' on their homes in the Poconos. People are on very tight budgets. The increased cost for food, gas, heating, etc has put many people over the brink. It's not because they are out having shopping sprees. I'm sure people are charging some non-essentials...but the problem is way deeper than that.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:01 PM
 
2,833 posts, read 9,785,245 times
Reputation: 1658
On the food forum...there is a thread where people are plannig on stock piling food...a supply for 6 months. Has anyone given that a thought? Is it necessary? What happens when you run out of food?
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:05 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,571,585 times
Reputation: 7604
Quote:
Originally Posted by artifice View Post
You do realize that the 1929 stock market crash was on its way to recovery until the 1930's debt came a calling. Between 1926-1929 the debt of US citizens went from $1.38bn to $3bn. Other than the wealthy nothing was owned as it was all bought on installments....people couldn't afford to pay their notes and therefore had to return cars, without cars no fuel was needed, no tires, no mechanic and so on down the line. Govt. intervention sealed the deal on the The Great Depression and yet the market had started to recover.....history should not be allowed to repeat. This is an over simplified look at the Great Depression but the moral should still be clear….don’t buy what you can’t afford and don’t let the government get involved….the private sector can adjust and recover if left alone.
If anyone wants a good read about the great depression and also some reference for what is going on now have a look:

http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf

It appears one of the main factors of the 1929 crash was people borrowing high interest loans to buy common stock.
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Old 09-29-2008, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre
42 posts, read 110,535 times
Reputation: 51
I think we are in for some hard times, but I am not at all convinced that the bailout would have helped one bit. I think it may have just delayed it for a short time, and probably would have prolonged the agony. Housing prices must adjust to affordable, sustainable prices.

This whole impending fiasco has been known to the banksters for a loooong time. The sudden springing of this bill upon the public was sneaky and makes me extremely suspicious. I heard about what was coming down the pike last February. And if it could reach someone with my very limited economic acumen, you better believe that it was known, if not planned.

I did what I could for the past year to be prepared to handle this. (My motto became preservation of capital rather than return on capital.) Thanks to a site by Karl Denninger, I got educated. He has been accurate in his calls for the 2 years I have been following him, and taught me so much. Con of the Century! | FED Up USA and Top Level - MarketTicker Forums
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:42 AM
 
71,500 posts, read 71,674,131 times
Reputation: 49074
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
If anyone wants a good read about the great depression and also some reference for what is going on now have a look:

http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf

It appears one of the main factors of the 1929 crash was people borrowing high interest loans to buy common stock.

very few but the very wealthy bought stock in those days, problem was the country was on a gold standard and when the market faltered there was margin calls ... it didnt take much in the way of margin calls that couldnt be met to leave the financial system with no money... when people came to take their money from the banks there was none to be had.--sound familiar . the banks failed one by one and with no fdic insurance and people lost their life savings . it was the failure of the banks that caused the great depression and left the public penny less not the stock market. sound familiar

today we have fdic insurance but the fact is they are in bad shape. they have 30 billion in their account with 117 banks on the watch list. one major bank could drain them. did you know it needs a vote of congress to be bailed out too? the way congress works you could be without access to your money for who knows how long in a big melt down

Last edited by mathjak107; 09-30-2008 at 02:04 AM..
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:57 AM
 
71,500 posts, read 71,674,131 times
Reputation: 49074
while a 20-30% drop so far this year in most of our portfolios seems to be the norm there is a big difference between a drop and a gain. a 50% drop in value will require a 100% gain to get whole again. these drops are terrible. do you know that over the last decade the s&p 500 has returned less that a lowly treasury bill. after yesterday it may actually be negative for the last 10 years... thats some of the 500 largest companies in america...

everyone is a genius in a rising market when things are going up and their strategy has the word buy and everyones a genius in a falling market when they own little stock. the people who do the best are those that just diversify and buy and hold the various asset classes and let things ride with no market timing. even cash instruments today is a guaranteed loss after taxes and inflation and there is nooooo hope thats going to change from year to year, the loss is a given.

as harry brown one of my mentors said. if you never want to be devastated by any economic even then plan for all 4 economic events we could ever have.

inflation--- recession- depression/deflation -prosperity

just make 4 piles of money

25% us treasury bills or us treasury money market.(no fdic needed )

25% total market index fund (like VTI)

25% long term 20 years plus us treasury bonds or bond fund (like TLT)

25% gold or gold bullion fund( not gold stocks) (like TLT)

YOU CAN NOW PROFIT FROM ANY TREND, GOOD OR BAD

Last edited by mathjak107; 09-30-2008 at 02:33 AM..
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Northern Wayne Co, PA
620 posts, read 1,844,498 times
Reputation: 339
A few people have made a point that I think is so clear...this bailout will probably not help...and it is just way too much of a burden to throw on the american people in that case. Like I said before, the poor, who are the people who live in a constant state of financial crisis, never get bailed out. I'm not talking about people living on public assistance...I'm talking about the people working two jobs, scraping by, trying to set a good example for their kids...MOST people. They do not deserve this.

It is depressing to think of all the upper middle class and upper class people who are losing so mcuh money now, but that is the inherent risk of investing in the market. The market does not keep this a secret from anyone. It is part of the game. And the lower class and lower middle class should not have to bail out anyone's risky behavior.

The kool-aid of course is that the bailout will help the lower class and lower middle class the most...when I hear that it makes me want to puke. Don't drink that kool-aid. A tremendous recession is on the way regardless of whether or not there is a 700 billion dollar bailout. This is the consequence of the kind of greed that has been rampant in this country for years. Time to deal with that.

ILOVEPA...storing food...I don't think it's a bad idea, but its only going to go so far...and if you're like me you'll probably end up giving most of it away. I think the consciousness of long term food storage (which a few of my friends do btw, and I understand why)...is all about the feeling of scarcity. And in reality there is enough for all of us. More than enough. Hopefully if there were another depression, people would get in touch with their communities again, and realize how simple it could be to live fulfilling lives that are based on the well being of the whole local culture, not based on personal self-interest and the spirit of getting as much for one's self as possible. If that makes sense to you, start a group in your community so that you will have a network of people close to your home that can work together to care for and help each other no matter what might come to pass on this dramatic television screen that has become our life.
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