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Old 01-23-2010, 11:51 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,998,227 times
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It is odd on WV.

I think maybe inequality and urban poverty is more linked to crime. If you're in a small town in West Virginia and everyone's poor there's not much point in stealing or killing someone for their cash. Also people know each other in smaller areas so that might discourage crime, because you know you'll get found out, or discourage reporting a crime because the community feels they can deal with it without the law. Or maybe a bit of both.

Granted there are some small rural areas with high crime. There are also some West Virginia towns with above-average crime and murder rates. Huntington and Princeton seem to fit that.

http://www.city-data.com/city/Prince...-Virginia.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Huntin...-Virginia.html
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:33 AM
 
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I wonder how much Gary influenced Indiana's score.

Baltimore obviously contributes heavily to Maryland's very high rate for that region.

Also, Michigan must be a very safe state outside of Detroit and Flint if those two cities didn't skew Michigan's results to be any higher than Pennsylvania
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:59 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,998,227 times
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At 5.4 per 100,000 I would estimate Michigan as a whole had 546 murders in 2008. Detroit in 2008 had 306 while Flint had 32. So there were 208 murders outside those cities.

If you include those two as metro-areas then there are 5.1 million people outside those two cities. This would make the murder rate for Michigan, sans Detroit and Flint, be roughly 4.08. This is roughly equivalent to Alaska or Kansas's overall homicide rate. However if the murder number for those cities is just for the cities proper than Michigan's population outside Detroit and Flint is around 9 million. That would make the murder rate for Michigan, sans Detroit and Flint, be roughly 2.3. That's a tiny bit lower than Montana's overall rate.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:43 AM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,315 posts, read 8,131,091 times
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California had 2,142 murders in 2008.

CA cities with 20 or more murders in 2008:

Los Angeles: 384
Oakland: 115
San Francisco: 99
San Diego: 55
Sacramento: 49
Fresno: 40
Long Beach: 40
San Bernardino: 32
San Jose: 31
Santa Ana: 30
Compton: 28
Richmond: 27
Salinas: 25
Bakersfield: 25
Stockton: 24
Pomona: 20
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
3,133 posts, read 8,342,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
At 5.4 per 100,000 I would estimate Michigan as a whole had 546 murders in 2008. Detroit in 2008 had 306 while Flint had 32. So there were 208 murders outside those cities.

If you include those two as metro-areas then there are 5.1 million people outside those two cities. This would make the murder rate for Michigan, sans Detroit and Flint, be roughly 4.08. This is roughly equivalent to Alaska or Kansas's overall homicide rate. However if the murder number for those cities is just for the cities proper than Michigan's population outside Detroit and Flint is around 9 million. That would make the murder rate for Michigan, sans Detroit and Flint, be roughly 2.3. That's a tiny bit lower than Montana's overall rate.
The Detroit News got on the cops case for lying about homicide numbers over the years. The new police chief amended the original 2008 total of 306 to 375. For 2009 they've reported 379. The chief stated that 20% of all crimes are never reported.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Pacific NW
9,440 posts, read 5,831,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
The looser the gun laws, the higher the murder rate. New Mexico has some of the most lenient gun laws in the country. Do the math.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
How many Vermonters actually carry guns? How many guns are in circulation there? The fewer the guns, the lower the murder rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNooYawk View Post
Hunting rifles aren't the favorite murder weapon among those who would commit it. Assault weapons and handguns are usually at the root of those high statistics among states. Usually, the numbers are higher in states with lenient laws for possession of those kinds of firearms.
It's clear where your bias is. So which is it, loose laws or numbers of guns or types of guns? Or are you just going to change the argument based on when it's questioned? In any case you're completely wrong. Did you make those stats up yourself or did you read them on Handgun Control Incs website?

How do you explain the crime and murder rates dropping every time they allow law abiding citizens more access to own and carry firearms? Do you really think that North Dakota has ultra strict gun laws and low ownership? Hardly. In Idaho you can legally own fully automatic weapons, and yet they have among the lowest murder rates. DC on the other hand has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and the highest murder rate, go figure.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:12 PM
 
739 posts, read 1,612,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BergenCountyJohnny View Post
Wherever it's hot they go crazy from the heat and start killing each other. In the cold states, murderers have less work days because some days it's too cold to do anything at all, including murdering someone.
Yeah, but Russia is on there too. Go figure.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:14 PM
 
739 posts, read 1,612,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
It's clear where your bias is. So which is it, loose laws or numbers of guns or types of guns? Or are you just going to change the argument based on when it's questioned? In any case you're completely wrong. Did you make those stats up yourself or did you read them on Handgun Control Incs website?

How do you explain the crime and murder rates dropping every time they allow law abiding citizens more access to own and carry firearms? Do you really think that North Dakota has ultra strict gun laws and low ownership? Hardly. In Idaho you can legally own fully automatic weapons, and yet they have among the lowest murder rates. DC on the other hand has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and the highest murder rate, go figure.
Haak, if you look at the map provided by a Tablemtn on the previous page, you can compare the US to Canada. That should answer all the questions you posed to me. Canada has strict gun control laws. We don't. Canada has a tiny murder rate compared to the US.
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Old 01-25-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,998,227 times
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This is potentially getting reductive and silly.

Murder rates involve a variety of different factors some of which may not even know. Canada's low murder rate is not simply because they have gun control and North Dakota's isn't necessarily because they have no gun control. Murder rates involve things like poverty, education, family structure, culture, demographics, and other factors. Canada is built on "peace and good government", being an orderly society. So is North Dakota in a way.

I don't personally think the effect of gun control is all that clear in either direction. The only thing I have leaned toward is that loose gun controls do relate to higher suicide rates. So I do lean towards thinking we should make it harder for people with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or suicidal ideation to obtain guns. Otherwise I'm not sure it makes much difference either way, but I recognize we just don't know. Still I think dealing with alcohol, poverty, joblessness, and hopelessness among young *males is probably a better way to reduce murder than anything we do on guns.

*I'm aware that might sound sexist, but men under thirty really do tend to be the group most prone to violence.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,712 posts, read 33,740,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodymiami View Post
what happened in 1971-72? all the murder rates and numbers go super high, then low again.
They probably changed the way murder is counted after that year.

Town/City crime rates are gotten by dividing crimes and number of residents (town population). This is why tourist towns always look like they have a lot of crime on paper. They count the crime but if the criminal is from someplace else, he's/she's not included in the residents number/population number thus the crime rate is inflated.
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