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Old 10-15-2008, 09:05 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,219,702 times
Reputation: 823

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS20000 View Post
This point is indeed valid: if a person's life experiences are limited to one particular region, culture, time period, etc., then the scope of their rationale for the development of their worldview is also limited. This is why history is so valuable-which is a shameless segue into the point of my post.
Again, I am aware of the fallacy of the prior generation passing judgment on that of the current, but the argument still has merit. There was a time in this very country (several generations back) when children always addressed their elders with a "ma'am" or "sir", and were well-versed in the works of Shakespeare, Hawthorne and Emerson with no high school education. Men wore hats and were skilled in the art of proper courtship. Divorce rates were low, literacy rates were high. A person would take full responsibility for his actions-there was no blaming the economy or the media or the president. I know Victorian ideals supported a stratified social structure but so what of it? These principles-albeit some are not perfect-can still apply. Someone mentioned the Japanese-their history of courtesy and respect to elders is very similar to Great Britain with the exception that the higher classes (samurai, daimyo) were even more humble and respectful to the lower classes because they served as the model citizens (the Japanese borrowed heavily from Confucian tenets).
I believe each successive generation has gotten just a tad more self-centered and arrogant than the last and soon it will be all too noticeable but all too late to be fixed in a reasonable time frame. The best way to start is simply to be more empathetic towards others. If you do not like being treated like a sack of manure then do not reciprocate such sentiments to others. Like a lot of things, you have to start at home; do not allow the schools to take responsibility for child-rearing (even though that is now their de facto duty).
Again an idealized version of society...Dickens Victorian era was fraught with social distress. "It was the best of times and the worst of times..." It not only applied to the novel but also the social crisies of the times. When were people versed in Hawthorne and Shakespeare with no high school education? You mean during the era of child labor? Stratified ideals are mean. If the arguement is that people are getting meaner, and your claim is that Victorian ideals are stratified and less mean...then this is a contradiction. Again, not one person mentioned the fact that racism has decreased, that social welfare has risen. Also, your high literacy rates were not there in the Victorian era (reconstruction racism and child labor were hindering it...only until later at the end of the Victorian era when public education became universal.). If we compare the Victorian era with today, the same social commentaries were made. The temperance movement was huge...this was because people perceived others to be "meaner" than before. Or what about the second Great Revival. The basis was because people were not "nice" enough and fraught with sin. Really? I would rather live now than before. People look at me rather than what my race and ethnicity is. You can keep your ma'ams and sirs. Plus I read the that a Revival era pastor saying that the youth did not even say ma'am or sir anymore!!! So you don't even have that!!! Personally I think that this arguement is made on points so unvalid that it is unbelievable. There has been NO research for any claim. Just anecdotal evidence. Even the closest post to any research has too much counter-evidence to sustain it. Please I urge all Americans to read history!!! Actually analyze the past. Gather up as many resources from the past and analyze ALL the text. Be informed, not ignorant.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:12 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,219,702 times
Reputation: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, that's a good point. I would also offer that television and movies really do not reflect how normal people should talk to one another.

Case in point? My kids watched the Disney Channel every day. Yet, I noticed that they were all beginning to be really mean to one another and argue with their mother and I.

So I decided to sit down and watch the so-called 'safe' programming. What did I find? Lots of sarcasm, put-downs, arguing, and talking back to the parents. Teachers were hopeless dupes to be outfoxed, and parents were equals. The Disney Channel is no longer allowed in my house as a result.

The problem with that? As a parent, you have to work and keep the household running. If you don't have kids who simply do what you ask of them without questioning, then you wind up having ongoing, exhausting trench warfare over little things such as taking out the garbage or picking up one's room. And if a kid can't get it together to follow your instructions on simple things like that, then what chance will he have on the job or out in the world?

So, yeah, Hollywood and Television bear a great deal of blame here, simply because children see it on the big screen and little screen and think that's how real people interact.
Yes and Tom and Jerry of the 1950s was so kind. Or what about the cigarette ads on the Flintstones. Just wondering, so not one person here ever protested against taking out the trash when they were kids?
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,600 posts, read 52,784,114 times
Reputation: 70935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Does it seem that people are getting meaner nowadays and are quicker to cop an attitude? I think it has to do with the economy and current hardships that tend to stress people out and cause them to be less polite and respectful. It also seems that some people on this board have become harsh and disrespectful to other posters, such as ridiculing someone just for asking a perfectly normal and straight-forward question, or slamming someone for something as small as a spelling/grammatical error or an inaccuracy. I'll probably get slammed from this post right here.

I think it's b/c it's "cool" to be a "bee-yowtch." It's "assertive" and "tough" to behave like that. I don't know when we decided that as a society, but that message is all over tv all the time.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:19 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,219,702 times
Reputation: 823
I ask again...everyone also take into consideration the other social ills of women rights, minority rights, child rights, and increased education. These have been much improved over time. They are affected by day to day interactions. However, in general people have stayed the same. We are all bound by essentially the same set of pyschological rules. And I don't know the people you meet, but my anecdotal evidence shows that people are nice. At the supermarket the bagger says "sir" (even though I'm 23). I get a thank you for opening the door for a person. I get smiles and hellos from strangers walking in my neighborhood. More often than not...so...just to keep on the trend of story telling.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Commonwealth Of Virginia
624 posts, read 1,033,851 times
Reputation: 288
Default Agree

There are many good viewpoints posted here, I see lack of manners and lack of structure every day.

Not only from people on the street and daily encounters , but businesses and agencies also.

I had 4 job interviews two years ago, and NOT ONE OF THEM SENT A LETTER TO ME STATING I DIDN'T GET THE JOB.
No, there is no law that says you have to send a person that letter , but just lack of courtesy.

And not only adults but children now are guilty, too much violence from TV, movies, and culture.

There is a BIG difference in being able to defend yourself, and letting others know what you mean vs cruelty.

This not only goes toward people but animals also, I am just hearing too much about cruelty to animals.

And its not only in the USA but all over the world. Its the information age.

However, its been going on since the world began, we just haven't learned or cared enough to stop it.

Last edited by Sunset_Va; 10-15-2008 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:06 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,219,702 times
Reputation: 823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunset_Va View Post
There are many good viewpoints posted here, I see lack of manners and lack of structure every day.

Not only from people on the street and daily encounters , but businesses and agencies also.

I had 4 job interviews two years ago, and NOT ONE OF THEM SENT A LETTER TO ME STATING I DIDN'T GET THE JOB.
No, there is no law that says you have to send a person that letter , but just lack of courtesy.

And not only adults but children now are guilty, too much violence from TV, movies, and culture.

There is a BIG difference in being able to defend yourself, and letting others know what you mean vs cruelty.

This not only goes toward people but animals also, I am just hearing too much about cruelty to animals.

And its not only in the USA but all over the world. Its the information age.

However, its been going on since the world began, we just haven't learned or cared enough to stop it.
The protocol is that you ask whether or not you got the job. It shows initiative.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:12 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,804,364 times
Reputation: 46078
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Yes and Tom and Jerry of the 1950s was so kind. Or what about the cigarette ads on the Flintstones. Just wondering, so not one person here ever protested against taking out the trash when they were kids?
Obviously not a parent. Either that or you're actively involved in producing the dreck that broadcasts daily.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:37 AM
 
65 posts, read 127,358 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Again an idealized version of society...Dickens Victorian era was fraught with social distress. "It was the best of times and the worst of times..." It not only applied to the novel but also the social crisies of the times. When were people versed in Hawthorne and Shakespeare with no high school education? You mean during the era of child labor? Stratified ideals are mean. If the arguement is that people are getting meaner, and your claim is that Victorian ideals are stratified and less mean...then this is a contradiction. Again, not one person mentioned the fact that racism has decreased, that social welfare has risen. Also, your high literacy rates were not there in the Victorian era (reconstruction racism and child labor were hindering it...only until later at the end of the Victorian era when public education became universal.). If we compare the Victorian era with today, the same social commentaries were made. The temperance movement was huge...this was because people perceived others to be "meaner" than before. Or what about the second Great Revival. The basis was because people were not "nice" enough and fraught with sin. Really? I would rather live now than before. People look at me rather than what my race and ethnicity is. You can keep your ma'ams and sirs. Plus I read the that a Revival era pastor saying that the youth did not even say ma'am or sir anymore!!! So you don't even have that!!! Personally I think that this arguement is made on points so unvalid that it is unbelievable. There has been NO research for any claim. Just anecdotal evidence. Even the closest post to any research has too much counter-evidence to sustain it. Please I urge all Americans to read history!!! Actually analyze the past. Gather up as many resources from the past and analyze ALL the text. Be informed, not ignorant.
Actually, common citizens were very much literate in those good 'ol days. Average citizens were not quite the illiterate bums that history would have you to believe (the history that is allowed in textbooks). Institutionalized pedagogy (otherwise known as school) was introduced to the United States in the late 18th century based on a Prussian model of mass instruction. Our contemporary understanding of what school and an "education" means has been terribly skewed. Read up on Horace Mann and William Torrey Harris. If you have really bothered to read my post you would gather that I was not condoning class stratification (I did say "some" of their ideals could still be salvaged for our contemporary culture-ideals like GOOD MANNERS).
It would be a fallacy of an appeal to numbers to support the notion that simply because everyone has an anecdote that it justifies the claim, but there is always a kernel of truth in every claim (any hard nosed skeptic would still have to realize that). Why so many stories of rude behavior and so few stories of good behavior? Do people only focus on the bad things in life? Statistically speaking, the US Census reports do reveal growing trends in divorce rates, number of single parent families, and overall poverty rates of families with persons under the age of 18. Also, there are numbers of other government reports that feature a slight decline in the literacy rate (actually, direct descendants of slaves had a higher literacy rate than most minorities today (Blacks have had numerous successful economic enclaves in the early 20th century before the race riots-find that in your typical textbook)). Keep in mind that these figures are fudged and that they coincide with revisions to the SAT testing material (people in 2008 are NOT taking the same language/reading test from 1958). And another thing: child labor laws were enforced to keep children in school and to prevent the production of more Benjamin Franklins, Abraham Lincolns, and Thomas Edisons-this fit in well with the intentions of the robber barons of that era because they wanted more workers, not competirors (John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and JP morgan were HUGE benefactors to the education industry, some of them founding their own universities).

I did not want to dwell on literacy but that is but a small component of the entire picture. People are losing consideration for others for a number of reasons: each one of these reasons could have its own book. Instead of arguing over details (the perverbial red herring) there needs to be consensus that there is indeed a problem in society without being steeped in denial.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:40 AM
 
65 posts, read 127,358 times
Reputation: 56
Oh yeah, times have not changed at all? People have always been the same? I do not recall reading about "chariot rage" in the Roman Empire.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Commonwealth Of Virginia
624 posts, read 1,033,851 times
Reputation: 288
Default Off topic but my viewpoint

Quote:
Not only from people on the street and daily encounters , but businesses and agencies also.

I had 4 job interviews two years ago, and NOT ONE OF THEM SENT A LETTER TO ME STATING I DIDN'T GET THE JOB.
No, there is no law that says you have to send a person that letter , but just lack of courtesy.

Quote:
The protocol is that you ask whether or not you got the job. It shows initiative.

I disagree, having been on interview panels . Its the responsibility of the employer doing the interviews to notify . Or at least the assumed task.

I ask during interviews, how will I be notified of the decisions either yes or no...and all told me I would be informed if not chosen.

Quote:
From an HR website:
* provide a written letter of offer to the successful applicant, outlining the terms and conditions of employment, including reference to a probation period, if applicable;
* communicate the decision to all unsuccessful employee applicants; and
* inform unsuccessful applicants of their right to receive feedback about why they were not offered the position
Perhaps this varies from Private companies than from Municipal and Gvt Agencies.
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