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Old 02-15-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,496,767 times
Reputation: 5783

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut View Post
Oh the delusional Columbus crowd.

As far as Minneapolis having a "tiny" downtown area, you do realize this information can be found online? That being said, I suggest you do a little research as to where downtown Minneapolis ranks in terms of office space and retail space. While your at it check out satellite images of downtown areas throughout the Midwest.

As far as ranking Midwest cities:
1. Chicago
2. Minneapolis
3. Detroit
4. St. Louis

Doesn't really matter after this.
Right, because we should ignore all the other cities in several other states. Ohio alone has one of the largest economies in the nation and in the top 30 of the entire world. But you're right, they totally don't matter. It's a good thing lists like this are based on subjective personal opinion and THEY actually don't matter.
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,171 posts, read 12,807,544 times
Reputation: 4047
Tier One:
- Chicago

Tier Two:
- Detroit
- Minneapolis/Saint Paul

Tier Three:
- Saint Louis
- Cincinnati
- Cleveland

Tier Four:
- Indianapolis
- Kansas City
- Milwaukee
- Columbus

Tier Five:
- Omaha

Tier Six:
- The Rest
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Right, because we should ignore all the other cities in several other states. Ohio alone has one of the largest economies in the nation and in the top 30 of the entire world. But you're right, they totally don't matter. It's a good thing lists like this are based on subjective personal opinion and THEY actually don't matter.
He's right. The Big 3 in the Midwest are Chicago followed by Detroit & Minneapolis/Saint Paul.

What does Ohio having a large state economy have to do with Columbus's rank in this thread? Minneapolis/Saint Paul last I checked had a far larger economy than Columbus, nearly double the economy size. Columbus trails the likes of Saint Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Indianapolis, & Cleveland as well in this regard.

Gross Domestic Product:
- Chicago: $514 Billion
- Minneapolis/Saint Paul: $192.4 Billion
- Detroit: $190.8 Billion
- St. Louis: $127.8 Billion
- Cleveland: $101.0 Billion
- Kansas City: $101.0 Billion
- Cincinnati: $97.1 Billion
- Indianapolis: $95.8 Billion
- Columbus: $90.0 Billion
- Milwaukee: $81.1 Billion

Source: http://www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/0110/charts.pdf

Also it trails on Total Personal Income too. See for yourself:

The Total Personal Income List 2009 by MSA:
01. New York City: 998,776,802
02. Los Angeles: 551,271
03. Chicago: 418,929
04. Washington DC: 309,080
05. Philadelphia: 271,943
06. San Francisco-Oakland: 257,761
07. Houston: 255,635
08. Dallas-Fort Worth: 254,769
09. Boston: 246,471
10. Miami-Fort Lauderdale: 229,380
11. Atlanta: 199,747
12. Seattle: 166,902
13. Detroit: 165,311
14. Phoenix: 149,611
15. Minneapolis-St. Paul: 149,594
16. San Diego: 139,345
17. Baltimore: 129,061
18. Riverside-San Bernardino: 124,004
19. Denver: 117,350
20. St. Louis: 114,127
21. San Jose: 101,926
22. Tampa: 101,045
23. Pittsburgh: 99,418
24. Portland: 86,822
25. Sacramento: 85,596
26. Cincinnati: 82,897
27. Cleveland: 82,288

28. Kansas City: 81,915
29. San Antonio: 71,489
30. Orlando: 71,458
31. Las Vegas: 71,275
32. Columbus: 68,907
33. Indianapolis: 66,850

34. Virginia Beach: 66,434
35. Providence: 65,291
36. Charlotte: 65,234
37. Milwaukee: 65,031
38. Austin: 60,568
39. Nashville: 60,548
40. Hartford: 59,402
41. Jacksonville: 51,533
42. Richmond: 51,065
43. Memphis: 48,094
44. New Orleans: 47,419
45. Louisville: 47,208
46. Oklahoma City: 46,525
47. Birmingham: 43,511
48. Raleigh-Cary: 42,611
49. Buffalo: 42,155
50. Salt Lake City: 41,805
51. Honolulu: 41,282
52. Rochester: 40,586

Source: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regi...df/mpi0810.pdf

Also we can look at the size of all of their corporate bases too. Here is that information:

Fortune 500 Companies in Designated Metropolitan Areas (2010):
New York City: 71
Bay Area: 31
Chicago: 28
Houston: 25
Dallas-Fort Worth: 24
Los Angeles: 24
Minneapolis–St. Paul: 20
Washington DC: 17
Philadelphia: 14
Atlanta: 12
Boston: 12
Detroit: 12
Cincinnati: 9
St. Louis: 9

Charlotte: 8
Denver: 8
Milwaukee: 8
Pittsburgh: 8
Cleveland: 7
Seattle: 7
Richmond: 6
Columbus: 5
Miami–Fort Lauderdale: 5
Omaha: 5
Phoenix: 5
Hartford: 4
San Antonio: 4
Indianapolis: 3
Jacksonville: 3
Kansas City: 3
Louisville: 3
Tampa: 3

Last edited by DANNYY; 02-15-2011 at 07:40 AM.. Reason: Tweak.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,321,280 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
1. There is far more to Columbus than just OSU.
2. Annexation is actually smart. It prevents a city from getting boxed in. This has happened to many of the older cities in which exist on a relatively small area and have seen their growth stagnate. And Columbus has not been annexing nearly as much in the last decade as it has in the past. The focus has bee on rebuilding the downtown. And this is funny coming from someone from Minnesota. Your biggest city has a tiny downtown and miles and miles of sprawl.
Downtown Minneapolis is leaps and bounds bigger and better than downtown Columbus. So that's funny coming from you. It also has a higher population density.
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Old 02-15-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,954 posts, read 4,507,309 times
Reputation: 1817
^^^^

Yeah, I think Columbus has a very underwhelming downtown. Perhaps the worst of any of the larger midwest cities. Kind of disappointing considering that it's flanked by some solid neighborhoods. Minneapolis has the second best downtown in the midwest.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,496,767 times
Reputation: 5783
1. I was responding to the claim that Columbus is all OSU, which is ridiculous.
2. I never stated anywhere that Columbus was the best city in the Midwest or even in Ohio.
3. I did not make a direct comparison between Minneapolis and Columbus. But for a metro of over 3 million (which is almost 2x the size of Columbus' btw), Minneapolis has a very underwhelming downtown area. And again, this is my personal opinion the same as all of yours are personal opinions.
4. To suggest that only 3 cities in the entire Midwest actually matter is also pretty ridiculous. My
talking about Ohio having a significant ecomony is largely based on the cities that it includes, so to state that they have no importance at all is crazy. Same goes for places in Indiana, Wisconsin, etc.
5. I'm not sure why most of those stats would be negatives to Columbus. It is one of the youngest cities on the list and has not reached a significant level of importance ON ITS OWN merits. It is growing faster than Minneapolis, Chicago, and Detroit, however. But the direct comparisons are pretty silly.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:35 PM
 
252 posts, read 420,278 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
1. I was responding to the claim that Columbus is all OSU, which is ridiculous.
Well, most outside the Columbus area think of OSU. I never hear or read any positive / negative stories about Columbus. If I have, I obviously didn't retain it because I don't really care about the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
3. I did not make a direct comparison between Minneapolis and Columbus. But for a metro of over 3 million (which is almost 2x the size of Columbus' btw), Minneapolis has a very underwhelming downtown area. And again, this is my personal opinion the same as all of yours are personal opinions.
Did you know there is another large downtown area just 10 miles from downtown Minneapolis? Did you know the country's largest mall is under 10 miles from downtown Minneapolis? Having all that office and retail space so close would kill most US downtown areas. Yet downtown Minneapolis is still ahead of the majority of US downtown areas.

There are currently 3 MSAs with a population above 3 million people and downtown Minneapolis is number 2 among them. Furthermore, for those MSAs in 2+ million range maybe 1 is better and 1 is close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
4. To suggest that only 3 cities in the entire Midwest actually matter is also pretty ridiculous. My talking about Ohio having a significant ecomony is largely based on the cities that it includes, so to state that they have no importance at all is crazy. Same goes for places in Indiana, Wisconsin, etc.
Of course, every city has some importance, but some have more than others and those 3 or 4 that were mentioned have a lot power and importance than the majority of Midwest cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
5. I'm not sure why most of those stats would be negatives to Columbus. It is one of the youngest cities on the list and has not reached a significant level of importance ON ITS OWN merits. It is growing faster than Minneapolis, Chicago, and Detroit, however. But the direct comparisons are pretty silly.
Yes, the comparisons are pretty silly, but you basically started it.
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Old 02-15-2011, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,105 posts, read 13,496,767 times
Reputation: 5783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unity77 View Post
Well, most outside the Columbus area think of OSU. I never hear or read any positive / negative stories about Columbus. If I have, I obviously didn't retain it because I don't really care about the place.

Did you know there is another large downtown area just 10 miles from downtown Minneapolis? Did you know the country's largest mall is under 10 miles from downtown Minneapolis? Having all that office and retail space so close would kill most US downtown areas. Yet downtown Minneapolis is still ahead of the majority of US downtown areas.

There are currently 3 MSAs with a population above 3 million people and downtown Minneapolis is number 2 among them. Furthermore, for those MSAs in 2+ million range maybe 1 is better and 1 is close.

Of course, every city has some importance, but some have more than others and those 3 or 4 that were mentioned have a lot power and importance than the majority of Midwest cities.

Yes, the comparisons are pretty silly, but you basically started it.
First, how did I start it? I didn't comment on Minneapolis until the poster I was responding to bashed not only Columbus, but almost every state and city in the entire Midwest. I find your double standard interesting.

Second, if you didn't care, why did you feel the need to come on and bash it while admitting you don't really know anything about it beyond OSU?

Third, I'm not sure I understand your comment about MSAs. There are far more than 3 MSAs above 3 million in the US, and Minneapolis is the only one in Minnesota. Not sure what you are trying to say there.

And of course some cities have more importance, that's not up for debate. My contention was with the comment that only the 3 or 4 cities mentioned mattered at all. They all matter and they all contribue to the overall economy of the region and nation.
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,954 posts, read 4,507,309 times
Reputation: 1817
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Third, I'm not sure I understand your comment about MSAs. There are far more than 3 MSAs above 3 million in the US, and Minneapolis is the only one in Minnesota. Not sure what you are trying to say there.
Me either. I guess he is trying to suggest that Minneapolis has the 2nd best downtown in its size range. Although, I clearly think that Portland, Seattle, and San Diego have better/more active downtowns.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:18 AM
 
252 posts, read 420,278 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
First, how did I start it? I didn't comment on Minneapolis until the poster I was responding to bashed not only Columbus, but almost every state and city in the entire Midwest. I find your double standard interesting.
You were the one downplaying Minneapolis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Second, if you didn't care, why did you feel the need to come on and bash it while admitting you don't really know anything about it beyond OSU?
Stating that Columbus isn't as important as Minneapolis and other cities isn't bashing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Third, I'm not sure I understand your comment about MSAs. There are far more than 3 MSAs above 3 million in the US, and Minneapolis is the only one in Minnesota. Not sure what you are trying to say there.
What didn't you understand? You previously stated, "But for a metro of over 3 million Minneapolis has a very underwhelming downtown area." I clearly used metro areas in the 2 - 3 million range as examples, which there are several and downtown Minneapolis easily ranks in the top 5. I'd say it's also better than a few cities in larger metro areas. So, as "underwhelming" as it may be, it is still better than the majority of downtown areas throughout the U.S. This a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
And of course some cities have more importance, that's not up for debate. My contention was with the comment that only the 3 or 4 cities mentioned mattered at all. They all matter and they all contribue to the overall economy of the region and nation.
I think the poster meant that 3 or 4 metros have truly separated themselves from the rest.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,321,280 times
Reputation: 4270
It just sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about. But I agree, Ohio cities are not worthless by any means and THAT was a ludicrous claim. You picked the wrong fight picking on Minneapolis' downtown, especially when comparing it to Columbus'. I've lived in both cities for 5 years or more and I know the downtowns very well. I feel like my opinion may be a little more valid for that reason, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I know (as a former Columbus resident) that most people there or in Ohio in general think very little of Minneapolis and/or Minnesota. They think we are small, podunk and non-significant -- a cousin of Canada. Most of my Ohio friends who came here to visit were literally shocked at how much bigger/busier it was compared to what they thought. That's not to say it's New York City (or even Seattle), but I'd ague against 5Lakes that it is indeed "better" than San Diego and Portland (maybe not Seattle).

To your point though, Columbus, Cleveland and Cincinnati are important Midwestern cities and I think the drop-off from #5 to #6, #7, or #8 is VERY SLIGHT, you could even call it a tie. The growth rates of Columbus, Kansas City, Indianapolis and Minneapolis are nearly identical, and I'd wait until the official Census results before claiming which is highest -- they are all in the ballpark of 10%-15% anyways (Chicago is close too).
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