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On this topic of TX, OK, etc being in the south or not...way back when, I remember the states of TX, OK, AR and sometimes KS, MO, and occasionally LA being called "Mid-South." I always liked this categorization because it acknowledges that these states are somewhat southern but not entirely.
On this topic of TX, OK, etc being in the south or not...way back when, I remember the states of TX, OK, AR and sometimes KS, MO, and occasionally LA being called "Mid-South." I always liked this categorization because it acknowledges that these states are somewhat southern but not entirely.
Just to respectfully note, I don't think Kansas (and barely Missouri) belongs at all with the other states in terms of being part of the same sub-region. Nothing about Kansas is classically Southern.
I think this is an exceptional post..This is something that is all too often overlooked, and is hardly ever taken into account. Many people who consider Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. as the "southwest" or "way out west" are from eastern states. So of course everything thats not conveniently juxtaposed to the east coast seems "out west" to someone who is IN the east/Southeast. Just like From Arizona's perspective Texas & Oklahoma are "over in the east"..But that doesnt make them an actual part of the southeast much less the east coast. It just means that they are east of Arizona.
So I would say that people should be more aware of the fact that Texas & Oklahoma sit squarely in the middle of the southern half of the U.S. map. That is, with the understanding that "Middle" usually implies central; not off to the west, not over in the east but central to all around it. They may not be central to the rest of the south, but then again neither are Georgia or SC -- but no one with sense would deny those two's southern statehood.
Ive always believed that most people choose to look at the U.S. map from east to west rather than west to east. So when surveying geographic relationships, states like Texas & Oklahoma appear to be waaayyy off to the west. When in reality its right in front of their eyes' but people tend to focus waaaayyyy off somewhere to the east, and so everything else becomes relevant to that location...thats just my theory tho.
This is a very insightful post and there is a lot of truth to what you assert.
where in the south are you from? and i've lived all over texas so i think i know what areas are and aren't southern. odessa, kind of, but not really. kentucky, hardly. virginia, not a chance. in the end, it's all about opinion
I live in metro Atlanta, geographically in the heart of the southeast.
My father's mother's side of the family comes from Kentucky. Very southern in any and every way.
Virginia, not a chance? Have you ever been to Danville, Lynchburg, Roanoke, Martinsville, or even Richmond? The only area of Virginia that is mixed would be northern Virginia, from roughly Fredericksburg northward.
i completely understand why people would disagree with me, but i never have considered VA the south. some of my younger cousins from norfolk had grits and pig ear sandwiches for the first time when they came to visit us when we lived in fort gordon, GA. not trying to be stubborn, but i've had people try to tell me that d.c. was definitely southern, and it didn't convince me either way. at best, i'll consider Virginia to be in the Southern Mid-Atlantic.
Pig ear sandwiches? I'm a southerner, and I have never eaten, nor been offered a "pig ear sandwich". Such sounds like foods that are eaten in the black community. You know, things like chitlins, ham hocks, pigs feat, etc.
Well, I appreciate your opinion Nairobi. I must say that your position is at odds with the Census' view of Oklahoma and Texas: www.census.gov/geo/www/us_regdiv.pdf The regional designations appear to be assigned, not only by geography, but also by culture.
Oklahoma is best characterized as a Southwestern (read "Western South" as TexasReb accurately delineates) state with a lot of southern flair. It certainly could be called part of the "West South Central" as wikipedia designates: Image:Census Regions and Divisions.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (<-----in case the pdf link does not load) The states that are undeniably culturally southern are as follows (most southern to least)
Alabama (Deep South)
Mississippi (Deep South)
Georgia (Deep South)
South Carolina (Deep South)
Louisiana
Tennessee
North Carolina
Arkansas
Kentucky
Texas
Oklahoma
Virginia (part of it)
Florida (part of it)
West Virginia (part of it)
Honestly, I'd say that Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana,Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas are more "southern" than Georgia, and Texas is very comparable, in my opinion. Oklahoma, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, and West Virginia are less southern, given migrations that have occurred over time. North Carolina being the most of this bunch, Virginia in the middle, followed by Oklahoma and West Virginia, then Florida.
Billiam already addressed the point that none of Pennsylvania is southern, so I would just like to emphasize that. None, zero, nada, zip, etc. I don't know where that notion even came from!
Many people feel southern Ohio, Indiana and Illinois are southern, and I have been to all those areas and I agree that one hears a lot of southern accents there, but those are still northern states. Ohio has a border with Canada on the north, for Pete's sake (as does PA, BTW, in Lake Erie).
I don't know why all of Colorado isn't included in the west. That line cuts off a tiny eastern portion of the state, which makes no sense. If you are talking true "western", I wouldn't include any of N. Dakota as west.
Eastern Colorado is as far east as the western portions of the plains states of the Dakotas and Nebraska. It is also a prarie. It's clearly part of the midwest. From just east of Denver westward, it's part of the west, granted the eastern extent of the west.
well...marshall, texas being the south isn't anymore of an opinion than saying jackson, mississippi is in the south. let's put it like that.
either way, i'm from texas, and there's no way somebody who isn't from here is going to be able to tell me about my own state. that may sound arrogant, but it makes sense, right? i don't know a thing about north dakota, and i would never pretend that i do.
but if someone has only lived in kentucky or virginia, and call themselves southern without even knowing what life is like in mississippi, georgia, or alabama (for example) i would laugh in their face. i'm not saying that's your case, missymom, but i don't know.
Most of Georgia is very similar to Virginia and Kentucky.
I think this is an exceptional post..This is something that is all too often overlooked, and is hardly ever taken into account. Many people who consider Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. as the "southwest" or "way out west" are from eastern states. So of course everything thats not conveniently juxtaposed to the east coast seems "out west" to someone who is IN the east/Southeast. Just like From Arizona's perspective Texas & Oklahoma are "over in the east"..But that doesnt make them an actual part of the southeast much less the east coast. It just means that they are east of Arizona.
So I would say that people should be more aware of the fact that Texas & Oklahoma sit squarely in the middle of the southern half of the U.S. map. That is, with the understanding that "Middle" usually implies central; not off to the west, not over in the east but central to all around it. They may not be central to the rest of the south, but then again neither are Georgia or SC -- but no one with sense would deny those two's southern statehood.
Ive always believed that most people choose to look at the U.S. map from east to west rather than west to east. So when surveying geographic relationships, states like Texas & Oklahoma appear to be waaayyy off to the west. When in reality its right in front of their eyes' but people tend to focus waaaayyyy off somewhere to the east, and so everything else becomes relative to that location...thats just my theory tho.
That is so true! I've had people from the East Coast tell me Texas is Southwest and for the most part it's not. Relative to Northeastern states it is the Southwest, but that's purely a geographic assesment and doesn't really take into account much else; However, Texas is almost dead South Central. It really is it's own thing and if anything next it would be Southern.
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