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The South as people know it stops basically once you hit US 281 in Texas and you change to another type of area which is basically Southwestern. Austin is no where near as southern as Jackson or Birmingham. Same with San Antonio. And you know what, Same with Dallas-Fort Worth.
I pretty much agree. Austin is hardly southern. Eastern San Antonio (Converse, kirby, windcrest, walzem and binz-engleman areas) has a lot of areas with a strong southern vibe. When it comes to DFW, the area that is really unarguably southern is East Dallas and South Dallas (fair park, oak cliff, red bird, south loop 12 area) and the far out "suburbs" in East Texas (i.e. terrell).
Here are some maps.
The Telsur map of Southern dialect from the Univ. of PA
The map of religions in the US
Ancestry map from the US Census Bureau
These last two maps are simply inaccurate. PA is over 53% Catholic, and Lawrence County, PA is about 27% Italian, making Italian the dominant heritage....these from a passing glance. I wonder how many other inaccuracies there are.
These last two maps are simply inaccurate. PA is over 53% Catholic, and Lawrence County, PA is about 27% Italian, making Italian the dominant heritage....these from a passing glance. I wonder how many other inaccuracies there are.
The last two maps are from a survey of religion by the Graduate Center at CUNY and the last map is an official US Census map.
It depends, I think, on what one means by the Southwest. While all four of these states are often called "Southwestern," very often no distinctions are made between the vastly different cultural and historical factors between the former pair and Texas (and Oklahoma to a goodly extent). So it can get confusing.
It has been my experience that most people from New Mexico and Arizona do not consider Texas part of their southwest, and most Texans kinda think of ourselves as something "southwestern" in a distinct and unique sense as well. Too, in sociological surveys of regional affiliation, the vast majority of Texans consider themselves to live in the South and be Southerners, whereas people in New Mexico and Arizona clearly prefer West and Westerners. And these differences in self-identification is entirely understandable, given settlement patterns and history.
In his book classic work "Cultural Regions of the United States", Raymond Gastil, put most of Texas and Oklahoma into a unique sub-region of the Greater South called the "western South". It is a place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with many aspects of the post-bellum western frontier. On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona were part of the Greater West, in a sub-region called the "Interior Southwest" This is the true traditionally Hispanic and Native American influenced southwest of the West, with little if anything classically Southern about them (The "southern West" as opposed to "western South").
It should be noted though that the El Paso area was put in with New Mexico and Arizona, and not many would argue with that, I don't think. That part of Texas has always had more in common culturally with the true hispanic southwest than the rest of the state in many ways.
As usual, you hit the nail on the head 'ol Friend. You are obviously very well read and have a mastery of regional history. I must say that I always learn something from your posts. Thank you.
I was born and raised in the south, and Virginia and Kentucky are clearly southern. By the way, if you've ever traveled, you'd realize that culturally the South extends to around Odessa, Texas, and some remnants even extend into southeastern New Mexico.
fine. except that virginia, west virginia, kentucky, indiana, illinois, missouri, and the western halves of texas and oklahoma need to be removed from "The South"...trust me.
Well, I appreciate your opinion Nairobi. I must say that your position is at odds with the Census' view of Oklahoma and Texas: www.census.gov/geo/www/us_regdiv.pdf The regional designations appear to be assigned, not only by geography, but also by culture.
Oklahoma is best characterized as a Southwestern (read "Western South" as TexasReb accurately delineates) state with a lot of southern flair. It certainly could be called part of the "West South Central" as wikipedia designates: Image:Census Regions and Divisions.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. (<-----in case the pdf link does not load) The states that are undeniably culturally southern are as follows (most southern to least)
Alabama (Deep South)
Mississippi (Deep South)
Georgia (Deep South)
South Carolina (Deep South)
Louisiana
Tennessee
North Carolina
Arkansas
Kentucky
Texas
Oklahoma
Virginia (part of it)
Florida (part of it)
West Virginia (part of it)
where in the south are you from? and i've lived all over texas so i think i know what areas are and aren't southern. odessa, kind of, but not really. kentucky, hardly. virginia, not a chance. in the end, it's all about opinion
Not everyone considers Texas Southern either(not that I agree). I guess it is all in perspective
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