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So what is left over? The space between 35 and 45? That is like, what, College Station? Most of Texas in population and influence is on a line following I 35 and to the east.
Outside of my home state I have lived in Texas the most with stops in Alabama and England. I live in Texas now and whether you like it or not, Texas is southern. Even west of Fort Worth is still southern. As Texas Reb labeled it "western south." But honey, it is still the south. You gotta go past Clovis and Hobbes, NM before you reach the true west.
Texans are well known to be proud of being Texan. Most of the time it is allowed and even charming to those of us not native Texan. Sometimes this pride leans toward the arrogant and irritating, but I don't see that in most true Texans I know, as most true Texans are southern and thus know about hospitality. But some on this thread are revealing that bit of arrogance that is bordering on the obnoxious.
Texas is large and diverse and unlike any other state in many regards. But that unique Texaness is primarily an off shoot of its southern roots at the west end of the South. The West does meet the south in Texas, but it is still the south.
Take the southern history and culture out of Texas and you don't have much to claim as interesting or unique. No other region has the sway or history or cultural connection to Texas the way the South does. It is definitely flavored by the West and by its Hispanic history and culture. But it is "flavored" by these. The meat, the substance, is still the south.
As a region, the south is by far the most interesting and diverse and creative of all areas in America. The south has areas as diverse as Miami and New Orleans and low country Carolina to Appalachia to Nashville to Missisippi delta to Texas right up to the doorstep of the nation's capital in DC. It is rich, rich, rich in so many things. It has arisen from the deadliest war in American history to be the most glorious part of America. The rest of America is rather bland culturally IMHO. American power centers have historically been outside the south, but the tide is shifting in most practical applications and has been for many decades. There is no reason to be ashamed or reticent to be considered part of this wonderful region.
Those outside the south continue to use old worn out sterotypes to try and keep the old power centers intact. I am not saying that the south has eclipsed the two coasts, but they no longer can ignore its influence in what makes America American. And it will only continue to increase in stature in years to come.
Texans, you are the most unique of southern states for sure. Nothing in America compares to you. But you are still the south. Your own unique nothing like it version of the south, but nonetheless, the south.
Uh...so what does this have to do with what I wrote? There are plenty of cities west of 35 (Lubbock, Midland-Odessa, El Paso, etc.). What I'm saying is, Texas loses every Southern quality it has west of 35 (generally speaking).
Uh...so what does this have to do with what I wrote? There are plenty of cities west of 35 (Lubbock, Midland-Odessa, El Paso, etc.). What I'm saying is, Texas loses every Southern quality it has west of 35 (generally speaking).
This may be true in physical features, but even West Texas, having been settled by those from the Southeast, is still essentially Southern in its history, political outlook, speech patterns, religious life (Southern Baptist church easily the largest protestant denomination), etc. Sure, again, its physicial landscape is very atypical of the rest of the South (although there are variations in this regard between the northern and southern sections of the region), but the culture -- reflecting settlement patterns -- is still basically Southern when compared to states of the true West, SW, and Plains states. It is, once again, the 'Western South"...a somewhat unique subregion of the larger region.
With all due respect, I think what you are doing (and IMHO, it is something many people do) is procede from a premise that the Southeast and "The South" are synonymous. As has been mentioned before, the South has always been a very diverse region in many aspects (just as the Midwest is). But the commonalities and similarities, both historical and cultural, are stronger ties than are the differences. Along those lines, in addition to the aforementioned bonds, the South too has always been a state of mind and attitude; which itself eclipses any bland numerical indices.
It is also important to note that, when cultural surveys have been done on the topic (Southern Focus Poll is one), most West Texans consider themselves to live in the South and be Southerners (the El Paso area is an expected exception though).
BTW SaintMarks, once again excellent and very well made points! I appreciate your kind remarks about my having won the debate, but actually I was just one participant in the topic. You had just as many -- if not more -- astute and right-on-the-money points and observations as well. South to west was another one.
Guess I better get back to work for now! Break time is over... LOL
Texas has all of that in one state though. Banking center (Dallas), research universities (Houston + Dallas), dynamic internation cities (Houston is on top, followed by Dallas), musical heritage (Austin), historic (San Antonio), aesthetically pleasing cities (Texas Hill Country cities). Yeah, yeah, yeah, Texas is a large state geographically wise, which is why I chose to stick to the 'Texas Triangle'.
I am very aware that Texas has all of those things. However I was just refuting txguy's point that there is nothing else of note or significance in the South outside of Texas. Also, I was showing how obtuse his view of the South really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713
Do you, or have you lived in Texas? I'm guessing not. Once you get to San Antonio, and on West, or Fort Worth and on West, Texas loses basically every single "Southern" character and becomes Western. Now, if you are east of I-45, you might as well be in Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama.
I've traveled in Texas a lot. I've been to the Panhandle, Dallas, and Austin and I can tell you that many of the cities along the I-35 corridor are Southern as well.
One other story I recall is that when my father lived in western Kansas, a family in his church that happened to be from Amarillo invited us over to their house for a proper Southern Sunday dinner. That just goes to show how most native Texans identify themselves.
Well I'm glad I won this debate!
Nice chatting with you all!
Dude sorry, but Texasreb wiped the floor with your argument, not to mention the general concensus on this thread is that Texas is indeed Southern! I've posted cultural maps on page 6 which include modern day Texas in the modern day South.... Nice try though!
How's this even a debate? I thought it was a little sad the way the OP had that "You Southerners" tone to it, like he isn't one. Texas in the same boat as Louisiana and Florida. It seem that this Txguy2009 has been fooled by tv in believing that everyone in the South have the same culture and are rural folk, my version of the South is Atlanta, Orlando, and Louisville type cities in the region. Another thing, we do have dentist in Atlanta and we use them.
I'll let you all (y'all, lol) Texans duke it out among yourselves whether or not you consider yourselves the south, but we here in the West do NOT consider your state a western or southwestern state at all-- with maybe a possible exception of El Paso and Big Bend. I'm a Colorado native, went to school in Arizona, and temporarily living in California. Texas in my eyes, and in the view of pretty much everybody I know in all three of these states, is a southern state. And there's nothing wrong with that either. You should be proud of what you are! (but bug off the PHX forum, please!)
How's this even a debate? I thought it was a little sad the way the OP had that "You Southerners" tone to it, like he isn't one. Texas in the same boat as Louisiana and Florida. It seem that this Txguy2009 has been fooled by tv in believing that everyone in the South have the same culture and are rural folk, my version of the South is Atlanta, Orlando, and Louisville type cities in the region. Another thing, we do have dentist in Atlanta and we use them.
What is with the "fear" of being Southern among liberals? I am not trying to be ugly but it seems like the loudest "I'm not Southern" people are liberal or maybe I am misunderstanding?
What is with the "fear" of being Southern among liberals? I am not trying to be ugly but it seems like the loudest "I'm not Southern" people are liberal or maybe I am misunderstanding?
Some of them are...some of them aren't. They are a subgroup of pseudo-liberals who don't quite understand that inclusion in the South doesn't automatically place them into the old, tired stereotypes that still exist with some people. I've noticed the exact same thing...many people will vehemently argue that their state or city IS NOT in the South due to cultural differences and other nonsense - even though there are cultural differences throughout the southern states, so it's not like there is a cohesive group of states that are SO similar that they form a regional bond. It's crazy and, really, who cares?
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However I was just refuting txguy's point that there is nothing else of note or significance in the South outside of Texas. Also, I was showing how obtuse his view of the South really is.
Dude sorry, but Texasreb wiped the floor with your argument, not to mention the general concensus on this thread is that Texas is indeed Southern! I've posted cultural maps on page 6 which include modern day Texas in the modern day South.... Nice try though!
