U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
View Poll Results: Which metros could Atlanta overtake?
Washington D.C. (pop. 5.3 million) 98 48.04%
Miami (pop. 5.4 million) 116 56.86%
Houston (pop. 5.6 million) 48 23.53%
Philadelphia (pop. 5.8 million) 85 41.67%
Dallas/Ft. Worth (pop. 6.1 million) 25 12.25%
Chicago (pop. 9.5 million) 8 3.92%
Los Angeles (pop. 12.8 million) 5 2.45%
New York City (pop. 18.8 million) 7 3.43%
None of the above 49 24.02%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
3,952 posts, read 8,487,753 times
Reputation: 1870

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown View Post
Again we are talking about the MSAs. Family incomes in the Philly MSA are lower than Family incomes in the Atlanta MSA.

CensusScope -- Household Income
CensusScope -- Household Income

again data sources on this is the US census.

CensusScope -- About the 2000 Census
You are absolutely killing me with this University of Michigan SSDAN mumbo jumbo. Lets stick with the census data not an organization who manipulates the census data.

I'll even put aside the official census bureaus per capita income data that has the per capita income of metro Philly about 8,000 per year higher than metro Atlantas.

Philaldephia metro still comes out ahead slightly in both household income and lower poverty but its very close.


Household median income 2006

Philadlephia- $55,593
Atlanta- $55,552

Household income for families 2006

Philadlephia- $70,781
Atlanta $65,815




http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...mat=&-_lang=en

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metro Area - Income in the Past 12 Months (In 2006 Inflation-Adjusted Dollars)

Poverty rate (metro)

Atlanta -11.9%
Philadlephia -11.8%

Poverty rate city
Atlanta -23.8%
Philadelphia- 25.1%


Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metro Area - Poverty Status in the Past 12 Months

Philadelphia city, PA; Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area - Poverty Status in the Past 12 Months

Last edited by rainrock; 11-30-2008 at 08:52 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:37 PM
 
367 posts, read 908,025 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713 View Post
And DFW feels more unified, or just more close together, since from city limit to city limit, Dallas and Fort Worth are only about 10 minutes apart. That, and there is one sports team for each sport, one television station/radio station, etc. Also, if you live in NoVa, then Baltimore is a long way away. You don't really get that in DFW, unless you are in the far northern suburbs like Melissa, or even McKinney. Even then, you are about only a 45 minute drive at the most from Fort Worth.
From Northern Virginia - Alexandria Virginia to be exact - to Baltimore Downtown is only 45 miles away. Try it on google maps. From a DC suburb in Maryland (Laurel MD) to Baltimore downtown is only about 20 minutes.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,968 posts, read 8,536,181 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalnet View Post
From Northern Virginia - Alexandria Virginia to be exact - to Baltimore Downtown is only 45 miles away. Try it on google maps. From a DC suburb in Maryland (Laurel MD) to Baltimore downtown is only about 20 minutes.
My point still stands that it's a lot different than DFW. How far away is Dulles/Chantilly from Baltimore? Most of the DC suburbs are in NoVa and not Maryland. We'll see in 2010 if there are enough commuters to justify a combined MSA between the two, or if one metro area will just steal a county (something that's about to happen to Philly, which will lose Mercer County to NYC's metro most likely).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:46 PM
 
367 posts, read 908,025 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
You are absolutely killing me with this University of Michigan SSDAN mumbo jumbo. Lets stick with the census data not an organization who manipulates the census data.

I'll even put aside the official census bureaus per capita income data that has the median income of metro Philly about 8,000 per year higher than metro Atlantas.

Philaldephia metro still comes out ahead slightly in both household income and lower poverty but its very close.


Household median income 2006

Philadlephia- $55,593
Atlanta- $55,552

Household income for families 2006

Philadlephia- $70,781
Atlanta $65,815




Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area - Income in the Past 12 Months (In 2006 Inflation-Adjusted Dollars)

Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metro Area - Income in the Past 12 Months (In 2006 Inflation-Adjusted Dollars)

Poverty rate (metro)

Atlanta -11.9%
Philadlephia -11.8%

Poverty rate city
Atlanta -23.8%
Philadelphia- 25.1%


Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta, GA Metro Area - Poverty Status in the Past 12 Months

Philadelphia city, PA; Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD Metro Area - Poverty Status in the Past 12 Months
Let's just look at GDP by metro area:

Combined Statistical Area/ Total Gross Product($150B+)
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA $1.284 Trillion
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA $825.3 Billion
Washington-Baltimore-Hagerstown, DC-MD-VA-WV $500.0 Billion
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI $490.9 Billion
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA $475.5 Billion
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH $383.8 Billion
Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX $344.5 Billion
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX $341.5 Billion
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD $330.0 Billion
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL $262.6 Billion
Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL $248.0 Billion
Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI $233.0 Billion
Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA $217.9 Billion
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ $179.4 Billion
Minneapolis-St Paul-St Cloud, MN-WI $186.7 Billion
Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO $162.3 Billion
San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA $157.8 Billion

Per Capita GDP
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA $65,804
Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX $61,038
Washington-Baltimore-Hagerstown, DC-MD-VA-WV $60,864
New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA $58,427
Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA $56,217
Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO $55,449
Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD $55,174
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX $54,771
San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA $53,655
Minneapolis-St Paul-St Cloud, MN-WI $53,312
Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-RI-NH $51,864
Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-WI $50,472
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA-AL $47,963
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA $46,430
Miami-Ft Lauderdale-Pompano Beach, FL $45,396
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ $44,416
Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI $43,068
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:53 PM
 
367 posts, read 908,025 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713 View Post
My point still stands that it's a lot different than DFW. How far away is Dulles/Chantilly from Baltimore? Most of the DC suburbs are in NoVa and not Maryland. We'll see in 2010 if there are enough commuters to justify a combined MSA between the two, or if one metro area will just steal a county (something that's about to happen to Philly, which will lose Mercer County to NYC's metro most likely).
I was on a business trip last month from Dulles Airport to San Jose. My United flight was cancelled so I was transferred by bus from Dulles airport to BWI. This is a common occurence, and vice versa. Just accept the commute patterns between DC and Batimore. A friend of mine is a hardwood wholesaler in Northenr Virginia. He goes to the port of Baltimore twice a week to transfer his import items to a warehouse in Baltimore. Then it is delivered from Baltimore to Norther Virginia flooring retail stores.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 08:55 PM
 
367 posts, read 908,025 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713 View Post
My point still stands that it's a lot different than DFW. How far away is Dulles/Chantilly from Baltimore? Most of the DC suburbs are in NoVa and not Maryland. We'll see in 2010 if there are enough commuters to justify a combined MSA between the two, or if one metro area will just steal a county (something that's about to happen to Philly, which will lose Mercer County to NYC's metro most likely).
Have you really been in the DC Maryland suburbs? To say that most of the DC suburbs are in Virginia is inaccurate. DC suburbs in Maryland such as Bethesda, Silver Spring, Rockville rival Northern Virginia.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 09:05 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,968 posts, read 8,536,181 times
Reputation: 3285
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalnet View Post
Have you really been in the DC Maryland suburbs? To say that most of the DC suburbs are in Virginia is inaccurate. DC suburbs in Maryland such as Bethesda, Silver Spring, Rockville rival Northern Virginia.
In population? I've been to DC, and am coming again for the Inauguration. I'm just saying the Virginia side seems more expansion than the Maryland side.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-30-2008, 09:17 PM
 
Location: DC Suburbs of Maryland (by way of PA)
2,900 posts, read 4,148,410 times
Reputation: 2231
I'm generally not into these p*ssing contests, but I feel the need to rectify some of the "facts" being purported here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown View Post
There are parts of the city of Philly that are fairly dense. But the Philly MSA is the topic that we have been discussing on this thread. The Philly MSA isn't particularly dense. Those growth controls you are advocating pushing people further away from the city and making the region less dense.
Not that this even remotely compares with the sprawl of the Atlanta MSA, however. While I don't think anyone would argue that sprawl is inexistent in the Philadelphia area, the DEGREE to which it exists IN COMPARISON to the Atlanta MSA leaves no competition. Speaking on population density:

Philadelphia MSA: Approx. 5.8 million people in 5,118 sq. miles (1,138/sq. mile)
Atlanta MSA: Approx. 5.2 million people in 8,376 sq. milles (630/sq. mile)

With almost twice as much density in the Philly area, how in the world can you claim that both metro areas have comparable sprawl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown View Post
The US born population of the Philly region continues to abandon the region for more desirable areas.
People leave the metro area -- you're absolutely correct, but that does not mean there is no growth overall. As others have noted, I'm not seeing this advantage in mass influxes of people if you're metro area cannot provide for this growth in a sustainable way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown View Post
The data clearly shows that the Atlanta area is better educated and wealthier.
You're substantiating this with horribly outdated data (2000). Here's the latest (2008) from the HUD area median income for both areas:

Philadelphia MSA: $74,300
Atlanta MSA: $69,200

https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/refmaterials/hudmedinc/


Quote:
Originally Posted by zen_klown View Post
Again, more people go to college and grad school in Atlanta versus Philly.
When you make claims like this, your credibility is definitely called into question.

The Philadelphia area has one of the largest concentration of colleges and universities in the country. UPenn, Drexel, and Temple, in addition to nationally-reknown colleges and universities like Villanova, Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr and Haverford in the immediate suburbs, definitely give Philly a huge advantage over Atlanta on the higher education front.

Number of College Students

Philadelphia area: 250,000 +
Atlanta area: 133,000

http://www.mercyhs.org/studentlife/pdfs/counselingpdfs/PhiladelphiaColleges.pdf (broken link)

Georgia Trend

Of course, many have argued that there has been this huge exodus of educated Northerners to Atlanta -- which I am sure is somewhat true, but that is hardly leaving metro areas like Philadelphia gasping for white-collar, college-educated graduates.

2007 Stats: Percent of Population over 25 with a Bachelor's Degree

Atlanta MSA: 34.1%
Philadelphia MSA: 31.3%

Clearly not a drastically higher level.

Just to be clear, I think Atlanta has clearly shaped up to be a powerhouse metro area, and that's great for the Sun Belt. However, that's not to say Northern metro areas are somehow withering up. That's definitely not the case -- we're as vibrant as we ever were (although a downturn in the economy with stunt growth everywhere). Some of us appreciate slower growth; others faster growth, but perhaps we should be discussing how to handle this growth in a better way before we start making bets on which metro area can claim bragging rights based on silly population estimates.

Last edited by Duderino; 11-30-2008 at 09:28 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: The land of sugar... previously Houston and Austin
5,333 posts, read 8,977,011 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by goozer View Post
I'll take a stab at why this scenario is possible... Houston has a "hurricane problem" which results in higher insurance rates and, post-Katrina, the threat of annual evacuations.
Houston really has no more of a hurricane problem than anywhere else along the Gulf Coast or all up along the East Coast (including coastal Carolinas, DC, even NYC and coast MA). All of these will have a continued threat.

Prior to the last one, the only recent hurricane to hit Houston was what, the early-mid 80's? How does that equal annual evacuations? Especially considering it's only a small portion of the eastern and southern part of the metro that is required to evacuate for a large storm?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2008, 11:00 PM
 
122 posts, read 31,061 times
Reputation: 123
DC and Philadelphia beyond question, Miami/South Florida is possible. Philadelphia is not a high growth area, is in a declining Rust Belt state (even if it is not a Rust Belt city itself), and is only marginally larger than Atlanta currently. Washington DC is one of the few areas in the Middle Atlantic showing respectable growth, but it too is only marginally larger than Atlanta and simply cannot match the area's growth rate. The key with South Florida is land. Atlanta has virtually unlimited territory over which to sprawl, with the water supply being the only limiting factor; in South Florida, Broward County is already out of land, Palm Beach County will be shortly, and Miami-Dade is already a sprawling mess with much of the available land located far away from the center city.

Houston and Dallas are rapidly expanding themselves and will not likely be overtaken by Atlanta unless the oil industry goes under. Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York are simply too large to be overtaken by Atlanta without some type of major shift.

I'd agree with earlier sentiments, though, that growth for the sake of growth isn't really a sound philosophy. If metro Atlanta adds another 2 million residents with the same growth patterns of the last half century, it will practically stretch from Macon to Dalton, and the already unbearable traffic in the region will actually get even worse, as hard as that is to conceive. Adding another 6 lanes to a 16 lane freeway isn't going to alleviate anything...
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top