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Old 07-21-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
3,093 posts, read 4,141,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calisnuffy View Post
When you have a myriad of options, who wants to watch amateur football?
Spoken by someone who does not understand college football.

That better things to do argument is so ridiculous.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:25 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,120,327 times
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My guess is that it is related to the existance of professional leagues (particularly baseball) that primarilly existed in the Northeast all the way until past the WWII period. Have to consider up until the mid 1950's the futhest West and South team in baseball was St. Louis.

I think that plays a role combined with the ways universities are in the Northeast made college football less popular than in other parts of the country.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:51 PM
 
7,615 posts, read 9,469,701 times
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Professional sports were strictly within the confines of the Northeast and Midwest until 1957, when the Dodgers and Giants moved to California, and the AFL, which started in 1960, and added teams in Oakland, San Diego, Miami, Kansas City, and Denver (along with some NE teams like Boston and Buffalo). Baseball expanded to Kansas City in 1954 ( The Athletics transferred from Philly), and the Minnesota Twins, California Angels and the Colt 45s (ne the Houston Astros) were all established in 1961-62. Thus, you have a decades-long tradition of following pro teams rather than colleges.

I don't mind college football, but I don't understand middle-aged alumni in other parts of the country who seem to get so wrapped up in the athletic exploits of 20-year olds. You would think that they would have other problems to concern themselves with, rather than firing the football coach after a 4-7 season.Let the kids, the current students, worry about their teams; the adults should have other things to think about.
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:02 AM
 
462 posts, read 583,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHG722 View Post
Penn State, Pitt, Temple, UConn, SUNY-Binghamton, SUNY-Buffalo, Baruch College, Vermont, UMass, Rutgers, TCNJ.

Also, Cornell is partially public.
And of course, the Merchant Marine Academy and West Point.

I dont know how that's 'very weak', but it's not academically oriented in the same way that higher education is in places like the south.
Yes, PSU is a huge school and draws the biggest crowds below Michigan. Buffalo is MAC and draws sub 20K. Private Syracuse is the top draw in NY (a state with just under 20 million people can only manage one 40K+ drawing team). Rutgers is pretty good at drawing fans, but really you'd expect a flagship school in a state of New Jersey's size (not much smaller than OH, PA or MI in population) to draw OSU, Penn St. or Michigan numbers. Not to mention they played the first game ever in 1869. It's not cultural, since PA is right next door.

Why is UMass in FCS? Why is UConn just recently starting a football team that can compete at a high level and draw fans? Maybe "weak" is the wrong term, but divided, defocused, or scattered definitely fit. As far as culture goes, most of these states have 1-2 NFL football teams that draw big crowds. The difference is that there is just that - one to two football teams, not 20-30 college teams to choose from in each state. The total college football attendance in NY is actually pretty high, but you wouldn't notice it since the numbers are divided up into units from 1K to 40K, among 4 NCAA divisions.
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Old 07-22-2010, 01:21 AM
 
462 posts, read 583,690 times
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Ivy League stadiums (at one point these were actually filled, and sometimes they still draw good crowds for rivalries):

Yale - 64K capacity
World Stadiums - Yale Bowl Stadium in New Haven

Penn - 52K
World Stadiums - Franklin Field Stadium in Philadelphia

Harvard - 30K capacity
World Stadiums - Harvard Stadium in Boston

Princeton - 28K
World Stadiums - Princeton University Stadium in Princeton

Cornell - 25K
World Stadiums - Schoellkopf Field Stadium in Ithaca

Brown - 20K
World Stadiums - Brown Stadium in Providence

Dartmouth - 20K
World Stadiums - Memorial Field Stadium in Hanover

Columbia - 17K
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium...ork_wien.shtml

Some are pretty small by modern standards, but Yale, Penn, Princeton and Harvard all have stadiums of FBS caliber. The Yale Bowl actually predates the Rose Bowl. If you compare these to SEC stadiums of the era when they were built, Ivies were much bigger. SEC stadiums just expanded over time to fill growing fan support. If Ivy league schools wanted to, they could be just as big as the SEC or Big Ten, and probably bigger. They have billions of dollars at their disposal, and name brands everyone recognizes. It's all a matter of choice for these schools. It has nothing to do with "culture" of not liking college football. Northeasterners invented the sport of gridiron football. Walter Camp made the original standardized rules, and went to Yale.

Last edited by Hamtonfordbury; 07-22-2010 at 01:41 AM..
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:17 AM
 
56,765 posts, read 81,102,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtonfordbury View Post
Yes, PSU is a huge school and draws the biggest crowds below Michigan. Buffalo is MAC and draws sub 20K. Private Syracuse is the top draw in NY (a state with just under 20 million people can only manage one 40K+ drawing team). Rutgers is pretty good at drawing fans, but really you'd expect a flagship school in a state of New Jersey's size (not much smaller than OH, PA or MI in population) to draw OSU, Penn St. or Michigan numbers. Not to mention they played the first game ever in 1869. It's not cultural, since PA is right next door.

Why is UMass in FCS? Why is UConn just recently starting a football team that can compete at a high level and draw fans? Maybe "weak" is the wrong term, but divided, defocused, or scattered definitely fit. As far as culture goes, most of these states have 1-2 NFL football teams that draw big crowds. The difference is that there is just that - one to two football teams, not 20-30 college teams to choose from in each state. The total college football attendance in NY is actually pretty high, but you wouldn't notice it since the numbers are divided up into units from 1K to 40K, among 4 NCAA divisions.
What hurts Syracuse is that it's location and the set up of the stadium. I work there and there are rumors about expanding the Carrier Dome. I think part of the reasons why it's not bigger is due to being built on the same ground as the old Archbold Stadium, which only held about 30,000, if that. If the Carrier Dome was expanded and the team continues to improved, that stadium would be filled. People love their SU teams here, but many are honest about their teams and would find something else to do in the area if the team is struggling like it has the last 5 years.

You also make a great point about the fact that there are so many lower level college football programs in NY State and in the Northeast in general. Actually, the CAA has a lot of very good FCS programs like Villanova, New Hampshire, UMass, Maine and Delaware. Colgate, Fordham and Holy Cross are good Patriot League programs. Schools like UAlbany and Stony Brook have improved. Even the good Ivy programs are pretty competitive. So, even in the FCS there are a range of levels within it and some are better than others within the competitive differences.

In D3, schools like Ithaca, St. John Fisher in Rochester, Cortland State, Alfred and Hartwick are pretty good.

There are some good D2 programs in Downstate NY like Pace and C.W. Post.

Good JUCO's are Nassau CC and Erie CC. Milford Academy is a good prep program.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:31 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 2,120,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
What hurts Syracuse is that it's location and the set up of the stadium. I work there and there are rumors about expanding the Carrier Dome. I think part of the reasons why it's not bigger is due to being built on the same ground as the old Archbold Stadium, which only held about 30,000, if that. If the Carrier Dome was expanded and the team continues to improved, that stadium would be filled. People love their SU teams here, but many are honest about their teams and would find something else to do in the area if the team is struggling like it has the last 5 years.

You also make a great point about the fact that there are so many lower level college football programs in NY State and in the Northeast in general. Actually, the CAA has a lot of very good FCS programs like Villanova, New Hampshire, UMass, Maine and Delaware. Colgate, Fordham and Holy Cross are good Patriot League programs. Schools like UAlbany and Stony Brook have improved. Even the good Ivy programs are pretty competitive. So, even in the FCS there are a range of levels within it and some are better than others within the competitive differences.

In D3, schools like Ithaca, St. John Fisher in Rochester, Cortland State, Alfred and Hartwick are pretty good.

There are some good D2 programs in Downstate NY like Pace and C.W. Post.

Good JUCO's are Nassau CC and Erie CC. Milford Academy is a good prep program.
How many of the FCS schools would consider and could upgrade to FBS? I would think at least one might seriously consider it in the next decade.
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:10 AM
 
2,783 posts, read 6,411,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtonfordbury View Post
Rutgers is pretty good at drawing fans, but really you'd expect a flagship school in a state of New Jersey's size (not much smaller than OH, PA or MI in population) to draw OSU, Penn St. or Michigan numbers.
That's pretty difficult to do, since Rutgers Stadium only holds 52,45x
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Old 07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The City
22,341 posts, read 32,208,951 times
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Beaver Stadium

Beaver Stadium has an official seating capacity of 107,282,[4] making it currently the second largest stadium in the Western Hemisphere and the fourth largest in the world.
Beaver Stadium is widely known as one of the toughest venues for opposing teams in collegiate athletics. Kirk Herbstreit of ESPN says that Penn State has the best student section in the nation and Gameday at PSU is "The Greatest Show in College Sports". In 2008, Beaver Stadium was recognized as having the best student section in the country for the second consecutive year.[5]

Beaver Stadium's record crowd of 110,753 witnessed Penn State's 40–7 victory over Nebraska on September 14, 2002.[8]
In 2002, Penn State also set an NCAA record for largest season attendance, with 1,257,707 watching Penn State games over the course of the season.[9]


Beaver Stadium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And honestly if you say there is less intensity in the NE watch these clips from PSU games - rivals anything in the country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldp-Gzohn3U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQo_E...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6hIQ...eature=related

Last edited by kidphilly; 07-23-2010 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:16 PM
 
56,765 posts, read 81,102,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imperialmog View Post
How many of the FCS schools would consider and could upgrade to FBS? I would think at least one might seriously consider it in the next decade.
I'm not sure, but some of those CAA programs have beaten some decent D1A programs. New Hampshire and FCS National Champ Villanova come to mind. UMass is usually good too.
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