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Old 12-12-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
28,202 posts, read 47,597,148 times
Reputation: 19712

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I am angered by recent comments of mostly Southern senators and representatives who seem hell-bent on punishing the North by forcing the domestic automotive industry into bankruptcy.

Apparently those same senators and representatives have short memories. When hurricanes, flooding or other such natural disasters strike, those of us in the North open our hearts and wallets.

Southern critics out of line on aid to automakers | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:09 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,201,775 times
Reputation: 14558
Natural disasters are not the same thing as supporting a broken business model. Apples and oranges. Southerners (like all Americans) donate goods and services when the midwest floods, when California burns or quakes, etc.

This is about business. Southerners have tried for decades to get the Big 3 to open up shop in the south. We've always wanted a piece of the U.S. automotive pie. They rarely give us a slice; their unions don't like them to open plants in at-will states.

Funny how foreign automakers are willing to make long-term investments in our states, to help us create jobs, and donate to our universities. Funny how American companies refuse to do that; instead they work against us. They lobby congress for our tax dollars. When BMW wanted to open up a plant in South Carolina, the AFL-CIO head protested, demanding that the plant hire out-of-state union workers. He also insulted the state of South Carolina by calling them "Third World Laborers."

Now the same crowd is trying to appeal to sympathy and patriotism? Seriously?

Last edited by le roi; 12-12-2008 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Hiawatha neighborhood of Minneapolis
240 posts, read 393,584 times
Reputation: 84
Shouldn't this be in Politics and Other Controversies, or is the consensus on this forum that there isn't enough animosity and controversy here?
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,534 posts, read 52,626,787 times
Reputation: 70762
It's not like these companies have to disappear, and it will give them the opportunity to shrug off the oppressive union labor contracts they have.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:36 AM
 
11,871 posts, read 32,899,856 times
Reputation: 8615
This has nothing to do with helping or not helping the auto industry in general. This has to do with throwing more money at the UAW.

Going bankrupt isn't the same thing as going out of business. Most of America's airlines have gone through bankruptcy and are still around. An obvious exception is Eastern Airlines which did go out of business after its labor unions refused to compromise.

Besides, if GM and Chrysler go out of business, it's not like people are going to quit buying cars. They'll just switch to buying Toyotas or Nissans, Hondas or Hyundais, most of which build their cars right here in America through non-union workers. A GM plant in Michigan might close, but a Toyota plant in Kentucky might expand. And it's not all in Southern states, either. Subaru and Honda have huge operations in Ohio, and Toyota has huge operations in California.

Last edited by JMT; 12-12-2008 at 10:12 AM..
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:28 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,712,118 times
Reputation: 46025
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
I am angered by recent comments of mostly Southern senators and representatives who seem hell-bent on punishing the North by forcing the domestic automotive industry into bankruptcy.

Apparently those same senators and representatives have short memories. When hurricanes, flooding or other such natural disasters strike, those of us in the North open our hearts and wallets.

Southern critics out of line on aid to automakers | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
There is zero logic to what you've just written.

While you can't do much about a Category 5 hurricane, the problems in Detroit are self-inflicted. They've been written about and dissected for years. Heck, American cars have been inferior to Japanese and German ones for at least 30 years, yet have the Big Three lifted a finger to do anything? Nope. What's more, if we bail them out, will they do anything? Wouldn't bet on it.

Here's a novel idea. Get rid of the incredibly costly benefits structures. Do something about Michigan's really punitive tax code. Roll a better product off the assembly line. Actually think more than 30 seconds ahead of time when it comes to designing cars.
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:45 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,453 posts, read 25,401,064 times
Reputation: 8919
The Big 3 deserve to fail and their workers demanded and got too much and now they have to pay the price for that. The only people to blame for this are the Big 3 and UAW themselves, no one else.
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Omaha
2,716 posts, read 6,213,794 times
Reputation: 1221
That's exactly right. The president of the UAW is citing government incentives and subsities as why they are unable to compete.

I think it's pretty obvious they can't compete because it costs them much more to do business in comparison to the foreign automakers. (UAW can be directly linked to the downfall of the Big3)
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:31 AM
 
3,597 posts, read 7,703,815 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1960 View Post
I am angered by recent comments of mostly Southern senators and representatives who seem hell-bent on punishing the North by forcing the domestic automotive industry into bankruptcy.

Apparently those same senators and representatives have short memories. When hurricanes, flooding or other such natural disasters strike, those of us in the North open our hearts and wallets.

Southern critics out of line on aid to automakers | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press
They aren't punishing northern auto-centric states (Michigan). They're serving their own bests interests by letting the Big 3 fail, thereby increasing marketshare for the increasing auto industry in their own states. Especially for all of the foreign automakers in the South.

To which I say, good luck, because in twenty years you'll have all of the problems the Great Lakes states had and none of the industry to replace it.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:51 AM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 6,348,691 times
Reputation: 1517
Consumers tend to vote by buying the best value product made by whichever company....don't really care what color are the workers...where the factories are based....or where the companies are headquartered....do care how competent is the product or service...and at what price...

Most taxpayers hate to see tax dollars wasted on subsidizing loser companies or loser workers....Darwinian selection is ultimately healthy for the US economy and society

No one forces any worker to choose to work for a loser company at low wages....if one has skills, a powerful economy will provide an appropriate wage...and no one needs to continue to reside in economic-loser locales like MI....thousands of people migrate to US every yr from EU and 3rdWorld in search of economic opportunity....similarly industrious people have been fleeing economically weak parts of US for decades

Any profitable, highly competitive, IQ-driven industry always has a shortage of smart, industrious workers...and will pay up to attract them and keep 'em....basic free-mkt economics, no?
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