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Old 12-27-2008, 07:20 PM
 
3,597 posts, read 7,703,815 times
Reputation: 2878

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So you start with something like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Talented kids from Midwest have been migrating to leading colleges in CA/Northeast for decades; building careers in CA and NYC; and almost never returning to Midwest (though I don't know anyone who doesn't look forward to visiting Chicago for a quick business trip)
And then go to this...
Quote:
Need superb engineering and business undergrad schools; low taxes; business-friendly climate for capitalists to start and run companies; and superb QOL for both singles and young families
And finally finish with this:
Quote:
Examine Chicago (esp Loop, LP, NorthShore and Naperville), SiliconValley, Manhattan/Greenwich and Dallas (esp Plano) for useful role-models of leading economies, each w/own strengths and weaknesses
How you even typed this without tripping over your own logic to such great extremes is confusing.
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Old 12-27-2008, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Houston Texas
2,898 posts, read 2,876,772 times
Reputation: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Darwinian selection is healthy for overall economy...let losers die quickly...make room for new, promising companies and regions

Talented kids from Midwest have been migrating to leading colleges in CA/Northeast for decades; building careers in CA and NYC; and almost never returning to Midwest (though I don't know anyone who doesn't look forward to visiting Chicago for a quick business trip)

Places that fail to attract/keep talent and profitable businesses deserve their outcomes

Need superb engineering and business undergrad schools; low taxes; business-friendly climate for capitalists to start and run companies; and superb QOL for both singles and young families

Examine Chicago (esp Loop, LP, NorthShore and Naperville), SiliconValley, Manhattan/Greenwich and Dallas (esp Plano) for useful role-models of leading economies, each w/own strengths and weaknesses
How very elitist of you!
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Old 12-28-2008, 09:32 AM
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Location: Ohio
16,822 posts, read 33,203,260 times
Reputation: 13610
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterRabbit View Post
Pittsburgh left the rust belt in the past some time ago. We're said to be #2 in the world, behind Japan, in robotics. Our economy now is mostly based on healthcare, education, technology, financial services and the Steelers.
I visited Pittsburgh for the first time this year. It's a great city and I agree that it is a model for how other Rust Belt cities can move beyond that status.

It has the "advantage" of having lost its core industry in the 70s. The other cities in the OP's list are much more recently experiencing the pains of that shift.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago
287 posts, read 917,588 times
Reputation: 185
Clearly there needs to be some restructuring of the economy of these cities to make them less vulnerable to the booms and busts (mostly busts of late) of one industry. Toledo has the infrastructure to have a vital downtown, but it's nearly deserted after work hours. Looking at empty shop window after empty shop window is beyond depressing. I know there have been efforts and some success at getting people to move downtown, but it's caught in a negative feedback cycle (ie people don't want to be there because there's nothing to do and businesses fail because there's no one there). It really is a beautiful place and I hate to see people leaving or fleeing to it's least attractive parts. My hope is that one day a place like the Old West End will be the kind of nationally known, picturesque, one of a kind neighborhood that it so clearly deserves to be.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:27 AM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,363,867 times
Reputation: 10919
People act like the entire population of the Midwest lives in a rust belt city.

Except for Detroit (and Southeast Michigan as a whole, really), the suburbs of basically all Midwestern cities are doing just fine and are all growing.

What we dwell on are the issues going on in Detroit, Youngstown, Toledo, Cleveland, Flint, Gary.... Those cities have MAJOR issues, but if you look at the stats, only 3% of the regions population actually live in those cities.

If you count the suburbs of those areas...and then Chicago, Indy, Kansas City, Columbus, Des Moines, Omaha, Twin Cities, etc. etc.....you're going to get tens of millions of people and a majority of the Midwests population. Very few people are actually living in the suffering and declining areas compared to those who are doing just as well as everyone else in the country. Why else would they leave there? There's a reason those cities are declining while others as well as all the suburbs are growing as they always have.

People certainly are leaving select areas for greener pastures in other areas of the country, but a vast majority of people in the Midwest have no plans of leaving, and are doing just fine.

The midwest grew by millions of people from 2000 to 2007. Not as fast as down south or the west....but its all relative.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,667 posts, read 8,768,305 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by LivingInExiles View Post
When I say "rust belt" cities, I'm referring to cities like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo, Youngstown, etc...

The major economic output that comes from these cities are mostly labor intensive, manufacturing industries. These same industries met their peak in the mid 20th century, but because of mass globalization, and outsourcing, we are now witnessing these once successful industries on the rapid decline, and it's killing the rust belt.

What can we do to revive the economies of these cities? Should auto makers change the way they are designing cars in order to increase competition with Asian/European car makers? Should these cities be new frontiers for industries like nanotechnology, information technology, fuel cell development, or even stem cell research?

What are your ideas on how these cities can be revived?
I think unfortunately, a lot of these cities must shrink in population and geographic area (which many are doing or have already done), in order to survive.

For the people who live there, the cities must shift their focus to luring and attracting technology, healthcare, or educational jobs to their cities.

These cities will probably never be the shining stars they were in the mid 20th century, in terms of growth, productive output, etc. They must change their focus and not try to re-live the glorious past, but instead reinvent their futures. Tough thing to do, but they have to in order to survive as viable, liveable cities in the future.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:54 AM
 
2,486 posts, read 2,359,501 times
Reputation: 830
^You are right about many of these cities needing to shrink to survive. My city of Pittsburgh has shrunkin considerably. There are several neighborhoods that look abandoned and are still struggling. However, majority of the city is doing just fine, and regardless of what the negative people say, the city has a bright future, and a good present.

In the industrial days, the city was overcrowded, smoky, ugly, and the living conditions were much worse. When I walk around the old mill neighborhoods like Lawrenceville or the South Side there is harldly any vacnant houses. Back in the 40s these would have been filled to the brim with a family of 8. Now they are owned by couples in their 20s. The Steel mills employed thousands of blue collar workers. Now the land where they sat are filled with green office buildings that employ white collar workers in the hundreds.

To get the city of Pittsburgh back to the population where it use to be in the industrial hayday is impossible. The city now is allways ranked as a top livable city, and it now is beautiful. Pittsburgh, and many other rust belt cities will never bring back the population of the industrial days. Nobody would want a smoky, overly dense, industrial city here anymore. Give me a clean, livable, and nice city with a still impressive density, but not 10,000 per square mile living in poverty.

I see so many times on these boards, especially from one guy from the sunbelt, that a population shift from the north indicates that these cities are ugly and nobody wants to live here. That is not the indication. A city like Pittsburgh had to shed its industrial background to re-invent itself, and that also meant losing population. Now the population has bottomed out, and we are no longer the industrial powerhouse of the 1900s-1970s, but the city sure is a hell of a lot more beautiful and livable.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:48 PM
 
11,972 posts, read 27,613,123 times
Reputation: 4568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
True and Grand Rapids is another city that comes to mind that is holding it's own as well. I think a lot of Rust Belt cities are cities in transition from manufacturing to say healthcare, education, alternative energy and companies that do work with government entities.
Midwestern does not equal "Rust Belt". Grand Rapids never really had a large industrial economy.

Other non-Rust Belt Midwestern cities with (relatively) healthy economies:

1. Chicago
2. The Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul)
3. Madison, WI
4. Indianapolis, IN
5. Ann Arbor, MI

Okay, that list is pretty short and some of the cties quite small... But I'm sure there are more!
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:49 PM
 
56,517 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookout Kid View Post
Midwestern does not equal "Rust Belt". Grand Rapids never really had a large industrial economy.
I think they have a car plant, had a Bissell plant I believe and a few other companies. They do have Amway and other companies that have doing fine too.Here's the Bissell history information:http://www.bissell.com/Page_id/88/History.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_R...chigan#Economy Forgot to add it is a big furniture manufacturing city too.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:55 PM
 
11,972 posts, read 27,613,123 times
Reputation: 4568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think they have a car plant, had a Bissell plant I believe and a few other companies. They do have Amway and other companies that have doing fine too.Here's the Bissell history information:Vacuum Cleaners, Carpet Sweeper

Grand Rapids, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Forgot to add it is a big furniture manufacturing city too.
Sure, but most cities have some manufacturing base. Rust belt cities were strongly dependent on heavy industry, and have experienced declines due to lack of economic diversification. Grand Rapids is suffering a little because of it's Michigan locale, but has always had a pretty diverse economy.
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