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Old 12-30-2008, 12:42 PM
 
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The Dallas Cowboys/Redskins/Eagles/Giants Rivalry predates the NFC East Division.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre View Post

Sweetclimber is onto something about why the NFL would not want to move Dallas out of the NFC east, since there are some longtime rivalries within that division that include the Cowboys. The question is how they ever were put into that division in the first place. I really don't know, but my best guess is that it had something to do with keeping the number of teams in each division balanced at the time of the NFL-AFL merger, when there had to be some rearranging because the NFL had several more clubs than the AFL.
maybe so. But I think they wanted to put Washington and Dallas in the same division just because of the history between the two franchises. Dallas is in the league because of Washington. Washington has their fight song of "Hail to the Redskins" because of Dallas. I'd explain more if you like.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
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When the 16 team NFL and the 10 team AFL merged in 1970, three NFL teams agreed to move to the AFC so both would have an equal 13 teams. These 3:

- Baltimore Colts
- Pittsburgh Steelers
- Cleveland Browns.

This led to each Conference having East, Central and West divisions. This was when the Falcons and Saints got lumped into the West with the 49ers and Rams. This followed the 1969 split of the NL and Al into east and west where the Braves got sent to the West as well. There werent many other southern teams in the NFL or NL to make a southern division in those days or in the west for that matter, so they got stuck together.

I understand Dallas remaining in the NFC East because of the fierce rivalries, but would like to know how they got there in the first place.
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:58 AM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,115 posts, read 17,333,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonJad View Post
For those that watch football, doesn't it make you wonder why the teams are in the divisions that they are? Perhaps there are historical reasons in order to create competition, maybe somebody who knows more than me can shed some light on this. Let me take case-by-case examples:


AFC East
New England
Buffalo
New York
Miami

What the hell is Miami doing here? shouldn't it be instead in the AFC South? Lets see if the AFC South has any abnormality that can be removed to put in its place Miami:

AFC South
Jacksonville
Houston
Tennessee
Indianapolis

Bingo!!! Indianapolis, that definitely aint the South. There is the AFC North but I think if they changed the name to AFC Central it would make more sense just like they do for the MLB. Lets see if we can fix the puzzle and keep the conference with 4 teams per division:

AFC North (renamed to AFC Central)
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Cleveland
Cincinatti

Hmmm...Baltimore, it makes sense for it to be in the AFC East since Washington and Philly are already part of the NFC East. AFC West looks right to me so I skip over to the NFC East:

NFC East
NY
Philly
Dallas
Washington

Dallas, what they hell are you doing here? again the best place for it is to be in the South:

NFC South
Carolina
Tampa Bay
Atlanta
New Orleans

They all look South to me, but if we have to keep their numbers at 4, it makes more sense to bring Carolina to the NFC East than keeping Dallas. As for NFC North and NFC West, they also look right to me so no point in talking about them.

What do you guys think about this re-arrangement of the NFL Divisions? Apologies of somebody has proposed this before and that I haven't invented the gun here.

These divisions were re-aligned in 2002, with the expansion of the Houston Texans into the NFL, which made for an even 32 teams. Prior to 2002, there were three divisions in the two conferences. The NFC and AFC East had Dallas and Miami, respectively. They lost the Arizona Cardinals and Indianapolis Colts, respectively. The reason these divisions retained the Cowboys and the Dolphins is because during the 1970s, when the NFL really came into prominence, these two teams were dominant. Meanwhile, in the northeast, teams such as the Giants, Jets, etc, were very bad. The NY area has many fans of the Cowboys and the Dolphins. NFL merchandising always sells much Cowboys and Dolphins merchandise. I am a child of the 70s. I have friends who are fans of both of these teams. The NFL front office knows this. There are certain teams in that front office that are regarded as 'very important'. They are the Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders, Steelers, and the Vikings. These teams were dominant in the 1970s. The people who were kids, who gravitated towards these teams in the 70s are now adults in their 40s and 50s. And they are the most likely purveyors of merchandise, fan interest in areas that are not proximate to the geographical area of these teams. That's why, for instance, there are so many Pittsburgh Steelers fans in Las Cruces NM, instead of Arizona Cardinal fans. You'll see 10,000 Cowboy fans in just about any NFL stadium. The two NY teams obviously share the largest markets in sports. It was therefore incumbent upon the NFL for Cowboys and the Dolphins to stay in the divisions where the most people live, which is the northeast. It all comes back to dollars. Fan interest abroad was the obvious factor to keeping these teams in their divisions.

As for the Indianapolis in the AFC South, I have it on pretty good authority the reason this was done was so that Peyton Manning would visit Tennessee once a year. Not a very long term, pragmatic decision, but its supposedly the reason the Colts are in that division. Also, the reason why the Ravens are in the AFC North is that Art Modell, much like back in 1970, when the AFL merged with the NFL, wanted to retain an access with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:01 AM
 
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Some of this information I am reading is very inaccurate, so, I'll try to enlighten everyone. During the sixties, the Redskins were owned by a racist named George Preston Marshall. He hated blacks. He was a lover of everything "Old South." Being that the Redskins were the southern most team in the NFL, he marketed the franchise as the "Team of the South." Remember, there was no Tampa, Atlanta, Carolina, Jacksonville, Tennessee, New Orleans or Dallas franchises at the time.

The Redskins were on radio stations in each of these markets every Sunday. They also had a huge following in each of these cities. Marshall was also in love with the song "Hail to the Redskins," which ended in "Fight for Old Dixie." Keep this in mind because it will come into play. In comes Texas millionaire Clint Murchison Jr. who wanted to bring a franchise to Dallas but was having a hard time. He was in negotiations with Marshall to purchase the Redskins but the deal fell through at the last minute. Murchison then went the expansion route but was repeatedly blocked by Marshall’s deciding vote.

Murchison discovered that Marshall's band director who wrote the song "Hail to the Redskins" had a falling out with the owner. He then bought the rights to the song for $2,500 and used it as leverage to get Marshall to vote him into the league if he returned it to Marshall. In the DC area, it was well known at the time that Marshall was a racist. The Federal Government was about to evict Marshall out of RFK and the NFL threatened sanctions if Marshall continued to keep black players off the team. He finally backed down and Bobby Mitchell (Hall of Famer) became the Redskins' first black player.

By this time, most of the damage had been done. Many AA in DC hated the Redskins for this. And because Dallas did the opposite by allowing many black players on their teams, they adopted the Cowboys. After Marshall died, new team owner and nationally renowned attorney Edward Bennett Williams bought the team and changed the ending of the fight song to “Fight for Old DC.” Today, there are many Cowboy fans in the DC area. They are misguided and don't know why they love Dallas so much. The rivalry continues to be one of sports greatest. Both franchisees are the #1 and #2 richest teams in all of sports. Dallas will never leave the NFC East because it brings in the most stadium revenue than any other division, which is split (60 home/40 away) between the teams during games.
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:31 PM
 
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A Redskins vs. Cowboys game is like a miniature Superbowl in Va. Their rivalry is a huge deal.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
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^^ Yeah the rivalry is great the entire week leading up to the game. Parties all over both cities for this game. You don't see this in Dallas for Cowboys-Eagles/Giants. Likewise, you don't see this in Washington for Redskins-Eagles/Giants. That's why I laugh at Eagle fans calling Dallas their number 1 rival. From Dallas point of view, you're not our number 1 rival. The Redskins are.

DC's finest basically told you how it all went down and I was hinting to that in my last post. It's nature to put those two in the same division which is what the NFL did 1 year into Dallas' existence. However, I do laugh at this part of his post that he just HAD to add:

Quote:
They are misguided and don't know why they love Dallas so much.
LOL. They aren't misguided. You are not obligated to root for your hometown team anyway. You said it yourself how the Skins use to be on the radios throughout the South. For that reason, there are still many Skins fans in Texas. Are they misguided themselves? I don't think so.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:50 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
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The last places I look when classifying regions are the sports areas. The NBA classifies the Washington Wizards as being in the Southeastern division, the NFL classifies Indianapolis as being part of the AFC South while Cincy is part of the AFC North (although I think Cincy belongs there, Indy is north of Cincy and definitely not Southern at all) and St. Louis as being part of the NFC West, and in the NBA says Memphis is the Southwest and OKC is the Northwest...it's just I think for divisional purposes and nothing else...there have to be a certain number of teams in a division, so many times I think that they will just thrown in some random team to fill up the divisions.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:58 PM
 
56,660 posts, read 80,973,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0421 View Post
These divisions were re-aligned in 2002, with the expansion of the Houston Texans into the NFL, which made for an even 32 teams. Prior to 2002, there were three divisions in the two conferences. The NFC and AFC East had Dallas and Miami, respectively. They lost the Arizona Cardinals and Indianapolis Colts, respectively. The reason these divisions retained the Cowboys and the Dolphins is because during the 1970s, when the NFL really came into prominence, these two teams were dominant. Meanwhile, in the northeast, teams such as the Giants, Jets, etc, were very bad. The NY area has many fans of the Cowboys and the Dolphins. NFL merchandising always sells much Cowboys and Dolphins merchandise. I am a child of the 70s. I have friends who are fans of both of these teams. The NFL front office knows this. There are certain teams in that front office that are regarded as 'very important'. They are the Cowboys, Dolphins, Raiders, Steelers, and the Vikings. These teams were dominant in the 1970s. The people who were kids, who gravitated towards these teams in the 70s are now adults in their 40s and 50s. And they are the most likely purveyors of merchandise, fan interest in areas that are not proximate to the geographical area of these teams. That's why, for instance, there are so many Pittsburgh Steelers fans in Las Cruces NM, instead of Arizona Cardinal fans. You'll see 10,000 Cowboy fans in just about any NFL stadium. The two NY teams obviously share the largest markets in sports. It was therefore incumbent upon the NFL for Cowboys and the Dolphins to stay in the divisions where the most people live, which is the northeast. It all comes back to dollars. Fan interest abroad was the obvious factor to keeping these teams in their divisions.

As for the Indianapolis in the AFC South, I have it on pretty good authority the reason this was done was so that Peyton Manning would visit Tennessee once a year. Not a very long term, pragmatic decision, but its supposedly the reason the Colts are in that division. Also, the reason why the Ravens are in the AFC North is that Art Modell, much like back in 1970, when the AFL merged with the NFL, wanted to retain an access with the Pittsburgh Steelers.
Interesting analysis and in terms of marketing, makes a lot of sense.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:02 PM
 
56,660 posts, read 80,973,859 times
Reputation: 12521
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
Some of this information I am reading is very inaccurate, so, I'll try to enlighten everyone. During the sixties, the Redskins were owned by a racist named George Preston Marshall. He hated blacks. He was a lover of everything "Old South." Being that the Redskins were the southern most team in the NFL, he marketed the franchise as the "Team of the South." Remember, there was no Tampa, Atlanta, Carolina, Jacksonville, Tennessee, New Orleans or Dallas franchises at the time.

The Redskins were on radio stations in each of these markets every Sunday. They also had a huge following in each of these cities. Marshall was also in love with the song "Hail to the Redskins," which ended in "Fight for Old Dixie." Keep this in mind because it will come into play. In comes Texas millionaire Clint Murchison Jr. who wanted to bring a franchise to Dallas but was having a hard time. He was in negotiations with Marshall to purchase the Redskins but the deal fell through at the last minute. Murchison then went the expansion route but was repeatedly blocked by Marshall’s deciding vote.

Murchison discovered that Marshall's band director who wrote the song "Hail to the Redskins" had a falling out with the owner. He then bought the rights to the song for $2,500 and used it as leverage to get Marshall to vote him into the league if he returned it to Marshall. In the DC area, it was well known at the time that Marshall was a racist. The Federal Government was about to evict Marshall out of RFK and the NFL threatened sanctions if Marshall continued to keep black players off the team. He finally backed down and Bobby Mitchell (Hall of Famer) became the Redskins' first black player.

By this time, most of the damage had been done. Many AA in DC hated the Redskins for this. And because Dallas did the opposite by allowing many black players on their teams, they adopted the Cowboys. After Marshall died, new team owner and nationally renowned attorney Edward Bennett Williams bought the team and changed the ending of the fight song to “Fight for Old DC.” Today, there are many Cowboy fans in the DC area. They are misguided and don't know why they love Dallas so much. The rivalry continues to be one of sports greatest. Both franchisees are the #1 and #2 richest teams in all of sports. Dallas will never leave the NFC East because it brings in the most stadium revenue than any other division, which is split (60 home/40 away) between the teams during games.
Good and pretty accurate history. I bet a lot of people don't even know that the term Cowboy came about due to many Black ranchers being in the Old West(rough estimate of about 25%). So, instead of calling them Cowmen, they were called Cowboys for obvious reasons, supposedly.

As for those two being the richest in all of sports, I would think the New York Yankees would have something to say about that.
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