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Old 01-06-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 33,428,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajf131 View Post
East half? You need to look up the definition of the Midwest: it's North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Michigan: and yes I have to been to Vegas, in no way is it even remotely Midwestern. Las Vegas is nowhere remotely near this area. Las Vegas, while very unique, is Southwestern and has much more in common with Southern California and Arizona.
Well sorry...if you check the reference you will find that about the same number of people come from the Midwest (the official midwest) as come from the west coast.

I would therefore give them the same weight.

I would also note that N/S Dakota and Nebraska don't amount to a hill of bean worth of population no matter how you count it.

The population of Las Vegas however grows with the midwesterners/southerners/easterners much more so than with those from the west.

I would by the way, agree it is a southwestern city. And I would stop there. And it has little in common with Californians except lunching off them.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:25 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,053,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I'm curious, what Southern influences are in Baltimore?
Its history of racial segregation, for one. (Jim Crow/Southern style, not housing covenant/Detroit & Chicago style)
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:35 PM
 
5,859 posts, read 14,053,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Well sorry...if you check the reference you will find that about the same number of people come from the Midwest (the official midwest) as come from the west coast.

I would therefore give them the same weight.

I would also note that N/S Dakota and Nebraska don't amount to a hill of bean worth of population no matter how you count it.

The population of Las Vegas however grows with the midwesterners/southerners/easterners much more so than with those from the west.

I would by the way, agree it is a southwestern city. And I would stop there. And it has little in common with Californians except lunching off them.
Anyone ever hear the old nickname of Long Beach, CA? Iowa-by-the sea! I once read speculation that the reason Southern CA is composed of lots of small towns instead of a huge city with bedroom suburbs is because the area was settled by rural Midwesterners.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
142 posts, read 314,272 times
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This is a brilliant list and I congratulate you for compiling it.

I think its very accurate too, I would however, like to understand what Appalachia refers to in this context ? I think of Appalachia as a place; are you referring to it as a culture ?

I read someone else's comments about Pittsburgh and it made me think of a conversation I had years ago with an old friend from Buffalo. He said to me that he did not consider Buffalo to be in the northeast, rather, it was midwest , more aligned with Pittsburgh and Cleveland than with New York City or Boston.

He made a good argument that the East Coast orbit was akin to the Boston - Washington corridor.

I'm not sure where east coast ends and midwest or southeast begins but I think my old friend from Buffalo made a lot of sense and I tend to agree with him still.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,567,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerBoston View Post
This is a brilliant list and I congratulate you for compiling it.
Thank you, I appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VerBoston View Post
I think its very accurate too, I would however, like to understand what Appalachia refers to in this context ? I think of Appalachia as a place; are you referring to it as a culture ?
When I refer to Appalachia, I mean it in the most broad sense. Appalachia is undoubtedly an area, but it also has its own history, demographic trends, political views, architectural style and economic ties. To be very general, Appalachia is characterized by such things as a large Scots-Irish population, Victorian architecture, coal and steel, and a greater influence from Protestant religious expression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VerBoston View Post
I read someone else's comments about Pittsburgh and it made me think of a conversation I had years ago with an old friend from Buffalo. He said to me that he did not consider Buffalo to be in the northeast, rather, it was midwest , more aligned with Pittsburgh and Cleveland than with New York City or Boston.

He made a good argument that the East Coast orbit was akin to the Boston - Washington corridor.

I'm not sure where east coast ends and midwest or southeast begins but I think my old friend from Buffalo made a lot of sense and I tend to agree with him still.
I don't claim to know exactly where the East Coast, Midwest, and Southeast begins either, but I think that Midwest starts to take over around Ohio with PA a transition state. The South begins south of DC, IMO.

Now concerning Pittsburgh and Buffalo being Midwestern: I do think your friend is accurate in saying that Buffalo is largely Midwestern influenced. Pittsburgh has the benefit of being both within the Northeastern U.S. and Appalachia, and in my opinion, draws its biggest influences from these two regions.

I am truly convinced that Pittsburgh is far more aligned with the "East Coast" than the Midwest. It shares such character traits as: very large percentage of Italians and large population of Jews (which seem to be the traditional European demographics of the Northeast), very large row house presence (which I consider to be the primary structural feature of East Coast neighborhoods), intense structural density in some neighborhoods as well as an old, chaotic city layout filled with one-way streets, larger than 50% Catholic, economic conversion to education, heath care and technology, and Pittsburghers undoubtedly perceive themselves as being from the Northeast.

Now the same trends in the Midwest would be: far fewer percentages of Italians and Jews with a greater emphasis on Germans; much more detached housing (in fact, outside of the Northeast, only SF has a significant row house presence as far as I'm concerned), wider more organized roads, much fewer Catholics, but Protestant and more inclined to Evangelicalism, some rust-belt cities outside of Pittsburgh have made such transitions to education and health care, but few to the same level as Pittsburgh, and finally, Ohio, Michigan perceives themselves as part of the Midwest.

Thus, while Pittsburgh shares significant characteristics with Buffalo, Cleveland and Detroit, I think this is largely due to Pittsburgh's traditional industrial ties, but not the character of the city as defined by: architecture, demographics, religion, structure and layout, current economic trends, and self-perception and self-characterization.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:07 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerBoston View Post
This is a brilliant list and I congratulate you for compiling it.

I think its very accurate too, I would however, like to understand what Appalachia refers to in this context ? I think of Appalachia as a place; are you referring to it as a culture ?

I read someone else's comments about Pittsburgh and it made me think of a conversation I had years ago with an old friend from Buffalo. He said to me that he did not consider Buffalo to be in the northeast, rather, it was midwest , more aligned with Pittsburgh and Cleveland than with New York City or Boston.

He made a good argument that the East Coast orbit was akin to the Boston - Washington corridor.

I'm not sure where east coast ends and midwest or southeast begins but I think my old friend from Buffalo made a lot of sense and I tend to agree with him still.
It is interesting that people are equating the Megalopolis urban sprawl with the Northeast. Other parts of the northeast are now said to be part of another region just because they are not part of a urban/suburban corridor that follows a 19th century rail route and a badly congested I95. I do not know any other region where people are subdviding the region in this way.

I think this is why many people seem suprised when they see pictures of rural New York, Pennsylvannia, Maryland and above all New Jersey - so strongly do people equate the Northeast with the megalopolis
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,567,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
It is interesting that people are equating the Megalopolis urban sprawl with the Northeast. Other parts of the northeast are now said to be part of another region just because they are not part of a urban/suburban corridor that follows a 19th century rail route and a badly congested I95. I do not know any other region where people are subdviding the region in this way.

I think this is why many people seem suprised when they see pictures of rural New York, Pennsylvannia, Maryland and above all New Jersey - so strongly do people equate the Northeast with the megalopolis
I agree. I'm also starting to think that the parts of Appalachia in PA and NY should be considered a subset of the Northeast (like New England).
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:37 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
Fair enough point...the term "Northeast" is undoubtedly more accurate. I use "East Coast" because most associate the Northeast with that term; and I like "South Atlantic" for the southern portion of the East coast. But you're right, East Coast is something of a misnomer.



For Cleveland, again, I agree that there seems to be a minor Northeastern influence (particularly in demographics where the metro has 9% Italian [with 6% being the national average] in addition to a larger than average Jewish population). Youngstown is the same way, as Northeastern Ohio used to claimed by Connecticut.

Now what would you suggest for Louisville, Buffalo, San Antonio and Tampa?

I don't know anything about San Antonio, and Buffalo confuses me. When I look at Buffalo, I see Great Lakes architecture and demographics, but I greatly hesitate to label a city Midwest that undoubtedly associates with the Northeast.
Sorry for getting back to you so late in a response.

I am not sure about the above cities you mentioned. It seems logical however that Louisville must have at least some influence from its neighbors across the Ohio River!

Buffalo (and Pittsburgh) I always thought as Northeastern cities. After reading many good comments here on CD I now understand they also might have a midwestern/great lake state influence.

I have been backtracking on some of the older threads here on CD and there are some out of state people claiming that Buffalo and Pittsburgh are entirely midwestern. I am not sure if I agree with that and will wait till I hear from people who actually live in the area to comment.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:40 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
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The same thing as I mentioned for Cleveland. It does seem to have NE qualities but I believe the great majortiy of Clevelanders would consider themselves Midwesterners/Great Lakers/Heartlanders lol.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,567,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Sorry for getting back to you so late in a response.

I am not sure about the above cities you mentioned. It seems logical however that Louisville must have at least some influence from its neighbors across the Ohio River!

Buffalo (and Pittsburgh) I always thought as Northeastern cities. After reading many good comments here on CD I now understand they also might have a midwestern/great lake state influence.

I have been backtracking on some of the older threads here on CD and there are some out of state people claiming that Buffalo and Pittsburgh are entirely midwestern. I am not sure if I agree with that and will wait till I hear from people who actually live in the area to comment.
I'm confused. Are you saying that now you think Pittsburgh might be more Midwestern (even after all my ranting about it not being Midwestern)?!
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