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Old 01-09-2009, 05:19 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,832,798 times
Reputation: 3545

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Philly ,NYC,Det,Bos,Bal,Chi population spurts grew from a very good reason. European immigrants moving to the Land of Oppurtunity who in turn helped feed,cloth,produce goods + services that helped keep a nation and a globe alive. Today despite the lofty reasons those cities are paying the price for that overpopulation as they are stuck with tens of thousands of 100+ year old working class homes.
And those cities are suffering to you? I believe only Detroit is loosing population. Those cities are still major draws (especially NYC, Boston, and Chicago) for American citizens.

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Now I'm reading a forum about Texans patting Houston and Dallas on the back because they basically lead the nation in sprawl. And what are the reasons for this sprawl?
Because they led the nation in creating sprawl?

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Is it to produce goods + services to feed and clothe a nation? No because this country got out of the manufacturing business 40 years ago.
Produce to cloth the nation? Nope and I don't think many clothes in America are made in America first of all. Houston has the third largest port in the nation, and you're probably wearing something that came from our port. Dallas has a larger railroad network as well, that is teaming up with the Port of Houston for a large South Dallas "Railport".

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Is it to supply ships,tanks,weapons to prevent tyrannical miscreants from trying to take over the world? No.
What city does this?

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So why then is Houston and Dallas growing at ridiculously abnormal growth rates? Cheap land, housing, and labor? Those are not great reasons. Warm weather? Thats nice but wont stop eventual debilitating decline.
Why do they grow? Cheap housing, land, and a plentiful amount of jobs. It really helps that companies are relocation here in droves.

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The only area in this country where uncontrollable growth would be a good thing is the Bay Area as its incredible location basically assures high end growth and redevelopment. The Bay Area is the one location in the USA that will never see sustained blight. Houston 150 years from now? Ehh. I've seen some of those flat sprawling developments in sun parched Dallas that have future trouble written all over them.
Uh...no. You obviously haven't seen many areas of the Bay, if you think it's all high and mighty.

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You mention even Philly gentrifying? Very slowly and localized. Its suburbs seeing what overpopulation eventually leads to is extremely anti-development.
Have you seen some of the developments going up in the City of Philadelphia?

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We may not be around to see it but Houston Dallas Atlanta growing at 20-30% is going to catch up to it.
Yep, keep banking on it. You'll be broke. I highly doubt out middle class areas, especially near the core will just become dilapidated and crumble over time. What would be the reason why the middle class-upper class would need to move?
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
4,908 posts, read 12,523,477 times
Reputation: 2631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713 View Post
And those cities are suffering to you? I believe only Detroit is loosing population. Those cities are still major draws (especially NYC, Boston, and Chicago) for American citizens.
Dont let the bright lights of Broadway or the Loop fool you. The bottom 20% of NYC population make up only 3% of its income.The top 8% are responsible for nearly 40% of NYCs incomes. The poverty rate in NYC is 20% that's a boatload of poor people for a city of 8 million. Sure Manhattan is terrific, Brooklyn has it charms and the centers of NYC and Chicago are big draws for young professionals, but the bulk of those cities are made up of working class,poor and immigrants. The vast majority of wealth in the older cities are located in their suburbs. The cities themselves for the most part have become fortresses of the poor. The avg household income in the BRonx and Queens is less than $40,000 in neighboring suburban counties its $90,000- $100,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713
Produce to cloth the nation? Nope and I don't think many clothes in America are made in America first of all.
And that is what makes Houstons growth so worrisome and admittedly I dont know Houston very well but my premonition is that alot of its growth is shallow and on the lower end. Suburban Boston,Philly,NYC could build tens of thousands of houses,walmarts,strip malls and call it growth but they've witnessed the pitfalls of overpopulation and what non-essential low end growth evolves into.


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Yep, keep banking on it. You'll be broke. I highly doubt out middle class areas, especially near the core will just become dilapidated and crumble over time. What would be the reason why the middle class-upper class would need to move?
The wealthiest cities and best housing stock in the usa from 1850-1950 were NYC,Philly,Detroit,Baltimore. Father Time caught up to them and Father Time will eventually catch up to the sunbelt cities. The quality of housing in Philly that has been victimized by decay was extraordinary in its time.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Underneath the Pecan Tree
15,989 posts, read 30,674,548 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post



And that is what makes Houstons growth so worrisome and admittedly I dont know Houston very well but my premonition is that alot of its growth is shallow and on the lower end. Suburban Boston,Philly,NYC could build tens of thousands of houses,walmarts,strip malls and call it growth but they've witnessed the pitfalls of overpopulation and what non-essential low end growth evolves into.




The wealthiest cities and best housing stock in the usa from 1850-1950 were NYC,Philly,Detroit,Baltimore. Father Time caught up to them and Father Time will eventually catch up to the sunbelt cities. The quality of housing in Philly that has been victimized by decay was extraordinary in its time.
Houston has tons of land to continue to build on and keep up with the growth. Cities in Texas aren't as compact as cities up north. Houston is in the stage now where they are knocking down old and tacky houses and filling in the spots with townhomes, condos, apartments, houses,etc. Our population would have to reach about 5-6 million people before we could start talking overpopulation, and still than we have tons of undeveloped land to build on in the metro area.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: O'Hare International Airport
351 posts, read 541,147 times
Reputation: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Todays sprawling growth is tomorrows headache.

Not to be confrontational but who do you think is going to take Youngstowns,Detroits,Flints throne in 2110?

Just look at what overpopulation did to a great city like LA, a city with enormous natural beauty, an outstanding climate,and opulent wealth. How well do you think the Texas metropolises are going to age? Is there going to be the desire to stick around and rebuild 2,000,000 deteriorating houses in a climate that reaches 100 degrees with 100% humidity?

Be careful what you wish for. I mean if LA, a city with one of the best settings in the usa sprawl is so out of control that there are 1 million illegal aliens hiding out in the city imagine the chaos that could happen in Texas.
You're assuming that economic collapse is inevitable--simply because it happened to the rustbelt. What you're missing is that there are real, solid reasons the rustbelt is in disarray. When you don't diversify your economy, when you give total control to unions and don't change in the face of a changing, global economy, and when you give political power to party machines, yeah, you're not going to do too well.

The south is booming and it willl for a long time because it is doing the exact oppposite.
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Old 01-09-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Working on infraction #2
341 posts, read 1,220,166 times
Reputation: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Another big shipment is coming from Colombia tomorrow.

My dude stop you listen to 2 much Young Jeezy and TI. Not everybody in Atlanta sells cocaine and is in BMF.

Last edited by Crazy Virgo Child; 01-09-2009 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:19 PM
 
56,582 posts, read 80,870,855 times
Reputation: 12500
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The odd thing is there is no correlation at all btw "booming" sunbelt cities and rustbelt cities. I wouldn't have thought Syracuse and Youngstown would see gains while Atlanta and LA would see major losses
Actually, according to that list we lost about 500 jobs, which actually is not bad.

Also, there are companies hiring here. I work at Syracuse University and they just laid off 48 people, but there are actually more jobs here than people think. Check these websites out and tell me if there are jobs in the area: Central New York Jobs

daVinci Jobs of Central and Upstate New York - Syracuse Area Professional Careers in Engineering, Health Care, Sales, Telecommunications, Education, and Much More

CNY Works - Works for All of Us
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: New England
8,155 posts, read 18,622,353 times
Reputation: 3292
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweethomeSanAntonio View Post
As if the cold weather up north doesn't have a effect on homes!
It doesn't. You're confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweethomeSanAntonio View Post
I think the decaying rustbelt of today will colapse way before the sunbelt will!
NYC seems to be doing fine...same with all those places in New England (Boston, Hartford, Providence etc).

By your standards, I wonder why Europe didn't collapse...cause they are way more "rusty" then the relatively young NE.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Denver via Austin
3,113 posts, read 6,495,871 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
admittedly I dont know Houston very well
Why do you even bother?
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,488 posts, read 16,152,784 times
Reputation: 5637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel713 View Post
Produce to cloth the nation? Nope and I don't think many clothes in America are made in America first of all. Houston has the third largest port in the nation, and you're probably wearing something that came from our port. Dallas has a larger railroad network as well, that is teaming up with the Port of Houston for a large South Dallas "Railport".
Not to get overly technical, and certainly not to get involved in an argument, but I just want to point out, big as the Port of Houston is, it's not among the busiest container ports in the country. A list of the American Association of Port Authorities (AAPA) busiest container ports in the world includes 6 U.S. ports. Houston isn't one of them. Clothing is containerized cargo. Now what Houston does rank highly in is tonnage, because petrochemicals are heavy stuff (albeit not containerized). The clothing you're wearing probably entered through Los Angeles or Long Beach.

Sorry, I'm a freight geek (pushes glasses up)
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:10 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,074 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
Just look at what overpopulation did to a great city like LA, a city with enormous natural beauty, an outstanding climate,and opulent wealth. How well do you think the Texas metropolises are going to age? Is there going to be the desire to stick around and rebuild 2,000,000 deteriorating houses in a climate that reaches 100 degrees with 100% humidity?
Very opinionated driven characterizations there. Opulent wealth? LA has the highest poverty rate when compared to Chicago, NY and both of those metros have much higher median incomes.

Poverty rates:

LA-22.1%
Chic-20.5%
NYC- 18.5%

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Be careful what you wish for. I mean if LA, a city with one of the best settings in the usa sprawl is so out of control that there are 1 million illegal aliens hiding out in the city imagine the chaos that could happen in Texas.
What does that have to do with Texas? Fact is, it is not happening in Texas. Houston, Dallas, Austin's economies are strong and LA's is down the toilet.

The job loss in LA is very high, much higher than NY which is more than 2X LA's population AND the very center of the financial industry.

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Dont let the bright lights of Broadway or the Loop fool you. The bottom 20% of NYC population make up only 3% of its income.The top 8% are responsible for nearly 40% of NYCs incomes. The poverty rate in NYC is 20% that's a boatload of poor people for a city of 8 million. Sure Manhattan is terrific, Brooklyn has it charms and the centers of NYC and Chicago are big draws for young professionals, but the bulk of those cities are made up of working class,poor and immigrants. The vast majority of wealth in the older cities are located in their suburbs. The cities themselves for the most part have become fortresses of the poor. The avg household income in the BRonx and Queens is less than $40,000 in neighboring suburban counties its $90,000- $100,000.
New York, NY has the highest median income in the United States of America so that sweeping generalization is inaccurate.

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And that is what makes Houstons growth so worrisome and admittedly I dont know Houston very well but my premonition is that alot of its growth is shallow and on the lower end. Suburban Boston,Philly,NYC could build tens of thousands of houses,walmarts,strip malls and call it growth but they've witnessed the pitfalls of overpopulation and what non-essential low end growth evolves into.
No, Houston's population is booming because of it's healthy income, not because of their building of wal-marts and strip malls.
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