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Old 07-12-2012, 08:20 PM
 
56,845 posts, read 81,169,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceisforAce View Post
Im from the Northeast, been all over the country, and I still dont understand the elitist mentality that some of the Northeast has towards the rest of the US, especially the Midwest.

Its like the 90% of people that base NJ on North Jersey. Its a fad.



OP, its not like an entire region is just going to uproot and leave. What is with the thinking in absolutes around here?
Corrected it for you. That may be the case in the Bos-Wash corridor, but up here, you can find various neighborhoods on one side of a city or neighborhoods with people from various income levels. Remember that the "Rust Belt" included much of, if not most of the interior Northeast(I.e.- much of Upstate NY and PA).
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:15 AM
 
18 posts, read 15,977 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The rural areas of the Midwest are subsizided at an extreme level by the government using taxpayer dollars. 1) Ridiculous waste from the Ethanol standard 2) Big corporate farms get subsidies when they don't need them 3) Unhealthy GMO crops and huge centralized feedlots/packing houses= unhealthy mass produced food. 4) Don't care for the social conservatism 5) Don't like the fact that many of the rural states there are government dependent and receive far more govt $$$ than they pay in taxes, mainly through an extensive array of military installations. 6) The USA does not have $$$ and has a massive $$$ federal defecit so why are we spending $$$$ on all these items when many could be scaled way back or eliminated???
you're really opinionated, aren't you?
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:52 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 34,207,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The rural areas of the Midwest are subsizided at an extreme level by the government using taxpayer dollars
You mean just like States in the West, South and Northeast as well? You leave out the simple fact that the most subsidized states are in the West and South and that there is a block of Midwest states that are donor states. Only 2 States that are in the South are donor states, the rest are recipient states. One of those donor states is TX and it is debatable whether it is Southern or Western, so depending on your viewpoint on that, the number could be just one state in the South is donor.

I agree that subsidizing and gov't handouts should end, but to point your finger and say it is the Midwest states that are the largest drain is disingenuous at best.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:45 AM
 
11,194 posts, read 22,415,451 times
Reputation: 10947
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
The rural areas of the Midwest are subsizided at an extreme level by the government using taxpayer dollars. 1) Ridiculous waste from the Ethanol standard 2) Big corporate farms get subsidies when they don't need them 3) Unhealthy GMO crops and huge centralized feedlots/packing houses= unhealthy mass produced food. 4) Don't care for the social conservatism 5) Don't like the fact that many of the rural states there are government dependent and receive far more govt $$$ than they pay in taxes, mainly through an extensive array of military installations. 6) The USA does not have $$$ and has a massive $$$ federal defecit so why are we spending $$$$ on all these items when many could be scaled way back or eliminated???
Any money that goes towards rural areas is normally more than compensated by the urban areas.

Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Indiana - they're all donor states.

Ohio is a break-even state. Iowa and Nebraska are lower end subsidized states (getting $1.20 for every $1.00), but mostly because they get federal dollars to support the massive food growing industries, both livestock and agriculture. They both have very low poverty and unemployment - the subsidy is going towards output for the country, not welfare.

Overall the Midwest puts in a lot more than it takes as a region.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:14 AM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,807,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
Would you leave this? Well...if you're an urbanite, most likely you'll leave anyway, but to the point...


Residential Community in Sterling Heights, Michigan - YouTube
Nice video. Although, I will say that although Sterling Hts is a nice, solidly middle class large suburb for sure, the video made it out to look more affluent and new than it really is. I think the focused their footage on the more high end subdivisions there. Most of Sterling Hts is housing stock from the 60s and 70s.

They used the word "prestigious", which would more accurately describe most of Oakland County, as well as the Gross Pointes, and a couple far west suburbs like Plymouth.

But of course the point is that you and others are trying to make is a very important one: rustbelt cities and states, have large, extensive suburban areas that are still a concentration of wealth and corporate activity, as well as nationally recognized educational institutions. Its just that the old urban neighborhoods which were generally built around heavy industry were left behind. However the fact that Michigan and Ohio has those affluent suburban belts and important college towns means that there are the available resources to make their central cities shine again, if they work together.

Finally, I think its fair to say, that there are a people from either within or outside the midwest that have "discovered" the rustbelt and are enjoying world class cultural amenities at bargain cost of living prices and would like to keep the secret for themselves.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:28 AM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,807,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstate Nancy View Post
THe PR for the "rust belt" states isn't too good. Let's start with the name! Versus, the "Sunbelt" states, which should really be the "hotbelt" states. Granted, the housing is newer and cleaner, roads are better, but sorely lacking in "culture," feeling of community, changes in weather (yes you do get sick of sunny skies and 90's months on end.) and lots of jobs in these areas are service, tourism, etc.
I love the "sunbelt", but not for the reasons that most would necessarily. In fact I really am not interested in the actual cities themselves in most cases, and instead just think of the cities as a base to use for venturing out and exploring the natural areas of said states. Phoenix or Las Vegas is one of the more obvious examples as there are very diverse landscapes, many types of deserts, higher elevations that are cooler and more forested, etc. With Florida, my aunt and uncle retired to outside Orlando. When I visited them I basically used it as a base to go shell collecting at the beaches, bird watching in the wetlands, snorkeling in the Keys. But I imagine that is not what most move to Florida for!

I live in LA, which has the extreme diversity in natural environments within a two hour drive, but LOTS of culture, as well as mild summers. But it is expensive.

The one other thing I do like the sunbelt for, is the fact that since most of the cities grew after the civil rights era of the 60s, you don't have the same patterns of segregation that linger even today, and there are more wealthy minorities, and also a higher (trailor park culture) white underclass, leads to less of an income/achievement gap. African Americans in Atlanta, Cubans in Florida, Americanized Mexicans in the southwest from California to Texas, (Hey, I'm a white male, I'm looking for are reason to congratulate ourselves on our progress and move on, can't blame me for that!).

However, it is true that many, if not most who are attracted to the sunbelt are those that talk about how they love the weather, hate winter, yet sit in air conditioned buildings and cars most of the time.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:58 PM
 
Location: IN
20,871 posts, read 36,023,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
You mean just like States in the West, South and Northeast as well? You leave out the simple fact that the most subsidized states are in the West and South and that there is a block of Midwest states that are donor states. Only 2 States that are in the South are donor states, the rest are recipient states. One of those donor states is TX and it is debatable whether it is Southern or Western, so depending on your viewpoint on that, the number could be just one state in the South is donor.

I agree that subsidizing and gov't handouts should end, but to point your finger and say it is the Midwest states that are the largest drain is disingenuous at best.
Ok, most of the Plains states fall into the recipient category as well as the vast majority of the states in the South and a good chunk of the states in the western US. As mentioned, with the Department of Defense cuts that are now ongoing, many of these recipient states will fell the effects. As rural states they have to diversify their economies to be less dependent on government funded military defense spending for employment.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,571 posts, read 7,047,914 times
Reputation: 3600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Nice video. Although, I will say that although Sterling Hts is a nice, solidly middle class large suburb for sure, the video made it out to look more affluent and new than it really is. I think the focused their footage on the more high end subdivisions there. Most of Sterling Hts is housing stock from the 60s and 70s.

They used the word "prestigious", which would more accurately describe most of Oakland County, as well as the Gross Pointes, and a couple far west suburbs like Plymouth.

But of course the point is that you and others are trying to make is a very important one: rustbelt cities and states, have large, extensive suburban areas that are still a concentration of wealth and corporate activity, as well as nationally recognized educational institutions. Its just that the old urban neighborhoods which were generally built around heavy industry were left behind. However the fact that Michigan and Ohio has those affluent suburban belts and important college towns means that there are the available resources to make their central cities shine again, if they work together.

Finally, I think its fair to say, that there are a people from either within or outside the midwest that have "discovered" the rustbelt and are enjoying world class cultural amenities at bargain cost of living prices and would like to keep the secret for themselves.
This is precisely accurate. The media often glamorizes the inner city regions of the rust belt without actually looking at the metros as a whole. While some small towns may have been dependent on only one factory, large cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Detroit all have metros that show them as a lot more stable than what most people have been led to believe.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:19 PM
 
236 posts, read 1,372,380 times
Reputation: 324
Put simply... Family. Marry an Italian girl and you will see what I mean.
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:46 PM
 
313 posts, read 287,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Corrected it for you. That may be the case in the Bos-Wash corridor, but up here, you can find various neighborhoods on one side of a city or neighborhoods with people from various income levels. Remember that the "Rust Belt" included much of, if not most of the interior Northeast(I.e.- much of Upstate NY and PA).

Im from Upstate (Utica).


Upstate NY is just as provincial, neurotic and arrogant as anywhere else in the Northeast (which I find hilarious).
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