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Old 01-13-2009, 06:13 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
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Quote:
if the rust belt has been hurting badly for so long, then how come there are still so many people left there?
Because the term was coined by elitist media-types on the east and west coasts and is not entirely accurate. Even Detroit has wealthy, leafy-green suburbs with beautiful homes and no abandoned factories in sight.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Because the term was coined by elitist media-types on the east and west coasts and is not entirely accurate. Even Detroit has wealthy, leafy-green suburbs with beautiful homes and no abandoned factories in sight.
Yep. I'm originally from Michigan, and while they have the worst economic conditions in the nation, keep in mind that the state unemployment rate is only about 3 percent above the national average. That means that in theory, about 97 percent of the population has no real incentive to move. That's a lot of people.

Also, while there are some abandoned storefronts and factories, most of the Rust Belt looks exactly like the rest of the country.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:03 AM
 
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about the population: many cities in the rust belt are losing population to the suburbs, not other parts of the country. If you look at census figures, metro areas of some of these cities gain population.
The city boundaries are set up differently in some sunbelt areas, having suburban areas that would be considered a whole other town in the rust belt, part of the city. The geographical boundaries are larger. So there would be a population shift that the census would not show.
Though the rust belt is gaining people at a faster rate, many rust belt areas aren't losing people like many think.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79 View Post
This is how i feel about my corner of the Rust Belt...............keep your soulless shiny new cities! I'd rather live in an area that has character and a little "rust". I can't stand transient cities where people have no ties to the area and destroy the landscape and towns they inhibit. I think in the end the rust belt will have the last laugh. We've got the affordable homes (sometimes more than the new south) and the cultural institutions of much larger cities w/out the traffic and congestion.
I'm not sure which cities you are referring to. Phoenix is everyone's idea of a "monster" city, yet if you go there, and take time to get to know it, it's not like what the media portrays it, any more than the rust-belt cities are. ALL cities were once vacant land. This included the rust-belt cities. It's just that some of them haven't grown much in 50 years. What you see in Phoenix now was going on in the rust belt cities 100 years ago, e.g land being developed. The building methods of the past were in some cases MORE destructive than today's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Answers View Post
Steve-o, I don't think anybody considers Chicago a rust belt anymore. Chicago did what Cleveland and Detroit failed to do by diversifying their economy and making the area attractive to upward moving young families and college graduates.

Great pictures of Chicagoland, though!
I think Chicago had a more diverse economy from the start, which helped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
about the population: many cities in the rust belt are losing population to the suburbs, not other parts of the country. If you look at census figures, metro areas of some of these cities gain population.
The city boundaries are set up differently in some sunbelt areas, having suburban areas that would be considered a whole other town in the rust belt, part of the city. The geographical boundaries are larger. So there would be a population shift that the census would not show.
Though the rust belt is gaining people at a faster rate, many rust belt areas aren't losing people like many think.
Those are stats you can look up. The latest census bureau numbers that were released early this month showed Michigan and one other state (can't remember which now) losing population. Pittsburgh's metro continues to lose population, regardless of the reasons. The argument that sunbelt cities are constantly annexing land to their cities is not entirely true. Denver is essentially prevented from annexing any more land, and has been since 1976. Yet its population continues to grow. The Phoneix area consists of many suburban cities, e.g. Mesa, Scottsdale, etc. Just a couple of examples.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:19 AM
 
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^I take it you never really studied Urban Planning before. Comparing the urban fabric of Phoenix to be similair to cities in the Rust Belt is just downright silly.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainulinale View Post
I've said this many times on this forum, but I'll summarize it again.

Simply because Pittsburgh is losing population doesn't mean that it is losing many people to the sunbelt or is stuck trying to revive manufacturing. Our loss in population has mostly to do with an elderly dying population and a missing generation of child-producing 30 year-olds. We have less blue collar jobs than most other cities, zero steel mills, and an economy that has truly transitioned from industry to health care, education and technology. If you want evidence of this: University of Pittsburgh Medical Center is now the largest employer in the city; we have three nationally ranked universities with CMU, Pitt, Duquesne in addition to over 25 other area universities; Pittsburgh has been named the top city in the world (outside of Japan) in robotics and is huge into AI. Additionally, PNC is now the 5th largest bank in the U.S.
Though you are right that our political system is backwards, the city is not in as bad shape as many suspect. Population figures don't tell the whole story.
Good post. It is too hard for some people to figure out that a industrial behemouth is going to have a lot more population than a nice livable city that is built on healthcare and technology. "Shedding population" as I call it is just part of the transistion of many cities in the rust belt. It doesn't mean they are dying.

Also, Pittsburgh's metro has been shown to level out in Population with the city starting to slow down it's loss considerably.

Growing as fast as many sprawlbelt cities is not a good thing, and is not a symbol of a indication of "a vibrant city". Excessive sprawl is not a good indication of anything but a ballon being inflated to fast. And what happens to Ballons that get inflated to fast?
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomo.2000 View Post
^I take it you never really studied Urban Planning before. Comparing the urban fabric of Phoenix to be similair to cities in the Rust Belt is just downright silly.
No, I studied nursing at the U. of Pittsburgh. But I've been to Phoenix and explored it. It's not a big sprawling mass like it's portrayed. It's not "comparable" to Rust Belt city, but neither is it the h***hole some Rust Beltians think it is.

As far as:
Quote:
I can't stand transient cities where people have no ties to the area and destroy the landscape and towns they inhibit.
, the Rust Belt has its own share of "destruction of the landscape" legacy, just not in the lifetime of most of us. Pennsylvania was clear-cut by the logging industry, strip-mined by the coal companies (in the west, and the eastern mines were no model of environmentalism either), the air was polluted by the steel companies. Pittsburgh wasn't called "Hell with the Lid Off" for no good reason. There is a nuclear power plant on the south shore of Lake Michigan near Chicago.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-13-2009 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:36 AM
 
3,234 posts, read 7,641,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post



Those are stats you can look up. The latest census bureau numbers that were released early this month showed Michigan and one other state (can't remember which now) losing population. Pittsburgh's metro continues to lose population, regardless of the reasons. The argument that sunbelt cities are constantly annexing land to their cities is not entirely true. Denver is essentially prevented from annexing any more land, and has been since 1976. Yet its population continues to grow. The Phoneix area consists of many suburban cities, e.g. Mesa, Scottsdale, etc. Just a couple of examples.

Yea, I have looked up stats on several places and there are rust belt places that have gained populations in their metro areas. You giving one example does not negate the fact. I never said that these cities are constantly annexing land. I'm saying that the city limits are big to begin with, having lots of open land that would not be traditionally considered "city" like. I have been to Phoenix and have to disagree with you. I see it as a big sprawling suburban area. Things are very spread out.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,069 posts, read 102,785,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
Yea, I have looked up stats on several places and there are rust belt places that have gained populations in their metro areas. You giving one example does not negate the fact. I never said that these cities are constantly annexing land. I'm saying that the city limits are big to begin with, having lots of open land that would not be traditionally considered "city" like. I have been to Phoenix and have to disagree with you. I see it as a big sprawling suburban area. Things are very spread out.
Well, I was just giving one example.

Phoenix is not all "Phoenix". It is also Mesa, Tempe, Scottsdale, etc. In other words, the city itself is not annexing land to fuel its population growth. That is an accusation of sunbelt/western cities that really annoys me. I live in metro Denver, and as I said, Denver has been prevented from annexing land since 1976, and in point of fact, has annexed very little since a major annexation in ~1900. That is an excuse some rust-belt newspapers like to play up. My parents (from Pittsburgh) were very surprised to learn that was not the case in Denver.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 34,211,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There is a nuclear power plant on the south shore of Lake Michigan near Chicago.
What has that got to do with anything? It isn't like there is a barren wasteland around power plants regardless of how the are fueled.
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