U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-13-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
2,237 posts, read 6,564,868 times
Reputation: 843

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Agreed. I think there's WAY too much emphasis in American culture on everyone's "right" to consume whatever and however they want. That completely neglects the fact that consumption habits do indeed effect everyone else when it comes to energy consumption and land use. I hardly consider it a "right" to misuse land and consume more than what is adequate for sustaining life.
Well considering that you automatically define it as "misuse". I don't think buying land directly hurts anyone.

Though I suppose it is a woman's right to suck the brain out of her baby as long as it's in the womb?

I just find it interesting what some people define as rights and others do not.

My discussion of this topic ends here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-13-2009, 11:15 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomo.2000 View Post
Urban sprawl is a issue that is about 20 years old. Rust belt cities were built tight and compact. There is still sprawl there for sure. New Sun belt cities were built on sprawl. There is nothing wrong with stating that we as a WHOLE nation should try to end sprawl, and live a smarter lifestyle. This means living in compact developments (urban or suburban), and trying to be less reliable on the automobile. The rustbelt is perfect for this new/old way of living, as where new cities like Phoenix were not built for it.
I've been hearing that term much longer than that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 11:28 AM
 
2,486 posts, read 2,359,501 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Agreed. I think there's WAY too much emphasis in American culture on everyone's "right" to consume whatever and however they want. That completely neglects the fact that consumption habits do indeed effect everyone when it comes to energy consumption and land use. I hardly consider it a "right" to misuse land and consume more than what is adequate for sustaining life.
The good thing about that is the market is going to balance this overconsumption out. I hope credit does get stricter, and I hope it is harder for people to consume as much. My generation is going to live a lot different than the one before me.

I admit also that I have some socialist values when it comes to land consumption. I wish my state, Pennsylvania, would implement harsher land restrictions to limit sprawl. Sprawl hurts the cities more than suburbinites believe, and also helps ruin the state's beauty. Cities like Portland and Seattle have it right with their growth boundaries, but not completetly where it just pushes sprawling idiots out further.

If you need to live like you are on "Little House on the Praire" please be a farmer or something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 11:41 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Denver is the exception to what tends to be the rule in the West, though. The City of Denver has a land area of 154.9 sq. miles and a pop. density of 3,838/sq. mile.
Think so? Here are the land areas of some other western cities:

Portland, OR: 134.3 sq. mi
Salt Lake City, UT: 109.1 sq. mi.
San Francisco, CA: 46.7 sq. mi.
Seattle, WA: 89.3 sq. mi.

All data from CD.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 18,742,495 times
Reputation: 10164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
. I hardly consider it a "right" to misuse land and consume more than what is adequate for sustaining life.
Do you need the internet to sustain life?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:02 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,148,649 times
Reputation: 16839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Think so? Here are the land areas of some other western cities:

Portland, OR: 134.3 sq. mi
Salt Lake City, UT: 109.1 sq. mi.
San Francisco, CA: 46.7 sq. mi.
Seattle, WA: 89.3 sq. mi.

All data from CD.
The other half of the statement you are referencing here also had population densities as well. Here are those figures also. Quite a spread actually. Not agreeing or dis-agreeing here, just curious is all so I looked and thought others may question what those figures were as well.

Portland OR: 134.3 Sq Miles - Population density: 4098 people per square mile
Salt Lake City UT: 109.1 sq miles - Population density: 1656 people per square mile
San Francisco, CA: 46.7 sq. miles (smaller then I would have guessed by the way) - Population density: 16,383 people per square mile (Holy sardines Batman)
Seattle, WA 89.3 sq. miles - Population density: 7085 people per square mile

Also those figures from City-Data. There are several there that will compare to the densities of Rust belt cities I would think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,448 posts, read 7,517,195 times
Reputation: 4334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Think so? Here are the land areas of some other western cities:

Portland, OR: 134.3 sq. mi
Salt Lake City, UT: 109.1 sq. mi.
San Francisco, CA: 46.7 sq. mi.
Seattle, WA: 89.3 sq. mi.

All data from CD.
Those are also coastal cities (with the exception of SLC). San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland all developed with patterns much similar to East Coast cities. I'm not trying to undercut your point, but I'm mostly referring to cities of the interior West.

Using at least one of your examples, here are some other cities with pop. density included:

Tucson: 195.1 (2,647/sq. mile)
Albuquerque: 181.3 (2,796/sq. mile)
Salt Lake City: 110.4 (1,666/sq. mile)
Las Vegas: 131.3 (4,154/sq. mile)
Reno:69.3 (2,611/sq. mile)
Boise:64 (3,169/sq. mile)

For Comparison, here are some Rust Belt cities:

Detroit: 143 (6,856/sq. mile)
Buffalo: 52.5 (7,206/sq. mile)
Pittsburgh: 58.3 (5,636/sq. mile)

Using the population density as an indicator, it's pretty apparent that Western cities tend to be less dense (with some notable exceptions). It's also important to note that the Rust Belt cities have lost a considerable amount of population, so their current population densities have declined considerably from much higher levels in the mid-twentieth century.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:06 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Less dense, yes. More massive, not really. Most seem within the bell-curve for city size.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,448 posts, read 7,517,195 times
Reputation: 4334
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Do you need the internet to sustain life?
Of course not, but the internet is intangible and my use of it does not interfere with anyone else's resources -- so I'm not seeing your point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:07 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,981 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Of course not, but the internet is intangible -- whereas land isn't.
Huh?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top